To think social class plays a part in making friends

[Jadefeather7]

I know a lot of people will likely find this obnoxious etc but as I’ve become a mum and seeking to make mum friends I feel like I didn’t realise before how much background impacts on friendships. Most of my friends come from a similar background i.e. we are professionals who live pretty comfortably. I was at a coffee morning today and I found myself having to really think about what I was saying. I felt a bit odd talking about my job and lifestyle. I thought about just sticking to baby topics as that’s what we all have in common but there were things that I couldn’t say for example when the mums were talking about babies not sleeping I couldn’t say that we managed to sort out our baby’s sleep with a sleep consultant. I even felt embarrassed about the way I speak English and felt that people would judge me for being ‘posh’.

I do appreciate everything I have had and I don’t look down on people who don’t have those things but I couldn't help feeling like the odd one out today and feeling that I couldn’t really be myself. I’ve read threads complaining about it being the other way around i.e. mums feeling that NCT groups are too “middle class” but I’m finding the reverse. Has anyone else experienced this? Do I need to try to find friends who are more like me or am I just sheltered and needing exposure to different people? If the latter do I just talk freely and risk coming off like a show off/snob or do I need to constantly be aware off how I come across and keep things to myself?

At the coffee morning today one of the mum’s was totally blanking me (not even looking my way). She was dominating the group and was probably the most ‘working class’ person there (I’m guessing this from the way she spoke). I didn’t say anything that could have been perceived as offensive or snobbish but I do have a polished way of speaking and I found myself wondering if it was because of that

@managedmis Most of my friends are from
school, university or work and our backgrounds were pretty similar

@Drabarni

Mine?

I would never say this IRL because it makes me sound like a snob, but:

I am middle class. Professional parents, went to uni etc. DH is the opposite and whilst we get on fine and our class differences don't matter, I do struggle with his family who are just so different to mine.

They are very brash and outspoken, they never eat proper meals or seem to have what I'd consider normal habits.

For example, we recently drove to Glasgow to visit his mum. It got to 1am and there had been no mention of food, just people getting drunker and drunker. I had had enough and went to bed. I had to ask where to find a sleeping bag from the cupboard and just slept on some cushions.

In my family my mum would have made a nice welcoming meal and made up a bed for us to sleep on.

People do flock towards people of a similar background. It was only towards the end of my mat leave that I realised the baby group friendships had even self segregated into the early 30 somethings and then those in their late 30s/40s. I don’t think it was conscious but it was obvious in hindsight.

Before they closed our children’s centre I went a few times for buggy walks but the segregation was a bit uncomfortable and awkward so I didn’t really go back. I had some nice chats with some of the ladies but our issues were so different.

it is important to realise that experiences of maternity leave can be so very different and it isn’t all nct groups swanning around cafes and going to baby swimming.

Of course class makes a difference.

I come from a very rough background. I'm white working class, went to a local (poor) comprehensive in an ass-end of nowhere town with a huge drug problem. I now have a very middle class job, where I mix almost entirely with people who have PhDs and above. I am fine in both of these environments. I still have lots of friends from school who never went to university, and I also feel utterly comfortable in my pretty meritocratic workplace where everyone really cares a lot about ideas and not a lot about material stuff.

However, I am like a fish out of water in 'ordinary' middle class company who went to feel-paying schools, have fog-horn voices, and who are obsessed with things like houses, cars, and material possessions. While they consider themselves to be educated because they have a degree, they generally don't have two original ideas to rub together, and are genuinely startled if the conversation moves to a point where they have to come off the defined tram-tracks of their daily thoughts and think through something new. Everything they do is poor and mediocre yet deeply pretentious: they play music badly, they read badly, they decorate their houses badly, and garden with the same plants as everyone else, also badly. They go on dull days to the national trust, and have tasteless afternoon teas. The long and short of it is that they are desperately BORING. I'd much rather have my constantly surprising, funny, desperately naughty, reprobatic working class friends from home, or my artist/musician/writer friends who are interesting. So yeah, class matters.

Just be yourself, be kind, be friendly, have a laugh, keep any references to money to a minimum, and if people don't like you then sod them.

I'm not in the UK any more, but still remember the constant class judgements from childhood. For some people I was a tramp or common because I didn't have branded clothes and because my parents didn't have a lot of money. For others I was a snob because I kept my head down, worked hard at school, spoke differently, etc.

At the end of the day, people will think what they want and good luck to them.

Just be yourself and you'll naturally attract other mums like you with similar backgrounds and lifestyles.

I went to one coffee morning thing way back when DD1 was 11 weeks old and I felt like the odd one out so never went back. But I've now found my tribe of mum friends who are all similar to me - all SAHMs, husbands working in the City, we all live locally to one another and our kids will likely go to the same school.

verticality I’m sure they love you too!

You remind me of a friend (who I love dearly so I’m not taking the piss) who is so clever she’d be the same as you. She’ll work until she’s dead and could never manage living in normal suburbia

In my family my mum would have made a nice welcoming meal and made up a bed for us to sleep on.

As would my working class Glaswegian family, and everyone else I know.

Im in the class wilderness too - a PP post made me laugh (my background is working class, DH is very middle class, he is constantly baffled by us arriving at my mum's and there being nothing to eat)

In the situation you describe, OP, I'd agree with others that you just need to be yourself. But if you can keep the money talk to a minimum that would be better. i.e with the sleep thing, you say 'I have a friend who works as a sleep consultant, she advised that we...'

...actually it has just occurred to me that this is what my posh friends do to me 😄

I think there's ways to discuss something-say the sleep consultant, if you'd said 'oh I've got so much money I paid £xxx to get a sleep consultant' it's very different to 'I was really struggling with my baby's sleep so I paid for some help'.

ThatMustBeNigelWithTheBrie Is that how you think most working class people would behave when they have guests?

Honestly you just sound obnoxious. I'm from a working class background, both parents left education at 14. I have a PhD and a senior position within my organisation, and the salary to match. At uni I had (and still have) a core group of best friends. I'm not the only one from a working class background, some parents have middle class leftie professional backgrounds, others are corporate high fliers, some are old money/trust fund types, one genuinely grew up in a castle. If you have to watch what you say for fear of offending the proles, you're the problem.

But even the ‘I’ve got a friend...’ advice tends to mark you out. Most sleep consultants around me seem to be quite posh. I imagine more of them exist in more affluent areas.

As an example of difference- my husband’s family are much less affluent than our friends etc. One of them sat me down at a recent event and warned me that children get really expensive at primary age because she was paying £40 a month for an activity so I should start saving now. It would have been crass of me to turn round and say that my children can’t get any more expensive than they are now at £70 a day for nursery. I just thanked her for the tip and agreed with her that it was worth saving up.

maybe not in making friends, but in keeping them. When people have different levels of disposable income, socialising becomes challenging. I.e. cannot afford types of activities or entertainment.

I think you'd have to be rather unusual to honestly believe (as opposed to an affectation) that people aren't more comfortable around their own class, at least in a new social situation.

I'm pretty middle-class and I'd say most of my dog-walking acquaintences are working class and there can be some exceedingly awkward ground for reasons like the OP's.

The truth of the matter is that the middle classes are dull and obsessive about things that no one else really cares about, e.g. hiring a sleep consultant (I say that with love OP!).

But I've now found my tribe of mum friends who are all similar to me - all SAHMs, husbands working in the City

Phew

formerbabe

But I've now found my tribe of mum friends who are all similar to me - all SAHMs, husbands working in the City

I'm picturing The Stepford Wives.

@AsTheWorldTurns Fair enough. You might not care for sleep consultants but for me it was a life saver. My baby was so unsettled & would scream all day long. I started to get PND from being so isolated. I hear so many people complain about sleep deprivation, I really wish sleeps consultants were available to all!

Completely understand what you are saying here OP, we live in a very deprived area, my Ds has just started school and I’m one of only two mums in the class that work. When DS1 was a baby though I found myself very much in the middle ground in that I had a decidedly MC background with private and grammar schools, good level of education (PhD) but had also given up a good career and was in a low paid job at the time so money not quite as plentiful as it may have been, although still more than many people in my general area had. You will probably meet more mums in a similar position if you look for paid baby classes such as post natal yoga, baby massage, swim tots etc.

"But I've now found my tribe of mum friends who are all similar to me - all SAHMs, husbands working in the City"

@Userzzzzz Oh yes, the feeling is mutual. They generally look at me like something that crawled out from under a rock (and I don't really blame them). And you're spot on, I definitely cannot imagine retirement in any kind of traditional way. I don't want to stop doing what I'm doing, the thought of having it taken away is terrifying!

Aww thanks Whoopstheregomyinsides!

We’re having a lovely shotgun wedding at six months pregnant so definitely not a MC affair 😂 we’re so excited and delighted though!

Mumsnetters really are obsessed with social class, aren't they? My friends are my friends, I couldn't be arsed what class they are or be able to pigeonhole them that way.