To think social class plays a part in making friends

[Jadefeather7]

I know a lot of people will likely find this obnoxious etc but as I’ve become a mum and seeking to make mum friends I feel like I didn’t realise before how much background impacts on friendships. Most of my friends come from a similar background i.e. we are professionals who live pretty comfortably. I was at a coffee morning today and I found myself having to really think about what I was saying. I felt a bit odd talking about my job and lifestyle. I thought about just sticking to baby topics as that’s what we all have in common but there were things that I couldn’t say for example when the mums were talking about babies not sleeping I couldn’t say that we managed to sort out our baby’s sleep with a sleep consultant. I even felt embarrassed about the way I speak English and felt that people would judge me for being ‘posh’.

I do appreciate everything I have had and I don’t look down on people who don’t have those things but I couldn't help feeling like the odd one out today and feeling that I couldn’t really be myself. I’ve read threads complaining about it being the other way around i.e. mums feeling that NCT groups are too “middle class” but I’m finding the reverse. Has anyone else experienced this? Do I need to try to find friends who are more like me or am I just sheltered and needing exposure to different people? If the latter do I just talk freely and risk coming off like a show off/snob or do I need to constantly be aware off how I come across and keep things to myself?

I get this. I am working class and I attend a few parent/ toddler groups where the majority are middle class. I find they either ignore me or are polite to me but exclude me from friendships. My kids go to two different primaries, one in a middle class area and the other is not. I do notice the difference between people who will speak to me and others that won't.

was probably the most ‘working class’ person there (I’m guessing this from the way she spoke)

What does this mean?

I am someone who is in a kind of class wilderness too. When I was a single mum in a council flat I became colleagues and friends with a woman with a completely different background. She owned a large house and woodland at the edge of the village. It pissed me off how she would edit herself, and try to justify her choices. An example is she did not choose the local school but sent them to a different village which is very middle class, instead of umming and awing just tell the truth that your family would fit in there. Ditto with her sailing or skiing holidays, there was no need for her to give me long explanations on her life.

I am working class. I didn't realise you can change class by earning more money hanging out with mc people.
I often read I was working class now I am mc.
Isn't class background education coming from a strongine of professionals.
How can you grow up WC and become MC.
Our neighbour had a progressive illness piss poor but so MC. She was brought up MC because of her illness and health she didn't fall down the ladder.
Class does exist but surely your born into it.

@thatmustbenigelwiththebrie That is not typical of a working class family.
Lots of stereotypes on this thread.

I agree that social class is 'made up' and has become relatively meaningless. The determination to hold onto it actually holds us back socially IMO as we cling onto it and fail to see past it.
The factors that are important in whether or not groups will get along are things like intelligence, cultural awareness, values, personality type, interests.
Social class used to be an indicator of wealth and people were only really able to mix with people of the same class as them. The world has moved on and actually social class now has little to do with wealth. In our determination to categorise people in this way our definitions have become increasingly complex.

To a recent poster who mentioned the experiences of someone in a 5 bed house in a leafy area being different to someone in a 1bed with 3 kids. The issue here is WEALTH not class.
There are intelligent but struggling artists or musicians from middle class backgrounds renting flats in cities all over the UK. Equally there are well-off plumbers (a traditionally working class job) living with their wives in 5 bed detached houses. Then there are 'working class' footballers who have more wealth and material possessions than almost all other professions.

I haven’t found that. I’m definitely working class with what I suppose you’d class as a middle class income and job. I have friends that are privately educated millionaires and friends on benefits that don’t have a pot to piss in. And they mix with each other with no friction if we all go out together. I’ve found the most elitist group to be the staunchly middle-class organic, non gendering mummy group types. If you disagree with their methods- or even if you stay quiet and don’t feverishly and loudly agree with the rhetoric of the moment they tend to close ranks and become icily civil. Just my opinion and no offence meant to any organic non gendering mothers reading- not how I parent but I fully support your rights to do it how you want without judgement.

I actually thought a really great thing about mat leave (which I didn't, in general, love) was getting out of my professional bubble. I was an academic who only ever talked to other academics - it was a total blast of fresh air to be reminded that most people hadn't heard of any of the people or issues that took up 90% of my headspace, and indeed that most people don't even care about their jobs all that much and are perfectly happy with this. I actually ended up quitting academia because getting out of my bubble for a bit changed my perspective so much.

Wealth is one part of class.

It's widely accepted that the traditional notions of class don't best describe the complexity of society so there more classifications now (Eg look at the BBC class calculator from years ago). It looks at professions, cultural capital, wages, home ownership, social groups etc.

Total wilderness person here. Living in a working class village, tiny terraced house, not much money. Working amongst wealthy people who fly abroad for the weekend. I love reading Proust and baking complicated bread, I have an MA and fit in nowhere at all. It’s really grim.

I’m part of a local moms group and I feel the same way. We start talking about things like child care for summer holidays and it’s quickly obvious that we have many more choices. I think part of what makes it tricky is that when we moved into this house we were tight on cash for the deposit, so it is much cheaper than we can actually afford. We thought about moving, but realized it’s a perfectly nice house in a perfectly nice neighborhood and we might as well save money by staying. I’m socially awkward anyway, so adding worrying about not looking like we are bragging makes me reticent to talk too much.

Op in your opening post you ask whether you should censor yourself when talking in groups and "speak to your target market" as it were. My response to this is absolutely. In all interactions we should behave within societal norms, which doesn't mean we are false, just that we portray our real personality in a way that gels with the wider group. Surely everyone does this in all interactions.

In my own experience, I was bought up working class but I have a profession that brings me into contact with people from all walks of life. I alter the way I interact with different groups but always in line with my core values.
I am also fortunate that the family I married into are wealthy so I am comfortable financially, therefore when I am mixing with others in that situation I interact differently but still true to my core values.

In my social life I meet people who are trying hard to be "middle class" or more.

I feel most comfortable and authentic with people from any demographic when they and I are being our authentic selves.

I guess what this long winded post is trying to say is that we all "play a part" during social interactions but as long as the part we play is in alignment with core values we are being ourselves and can have friends and acquaintances from varied backgrounds and social sectors.

I went to a bog standard comp majority were not like me so I am abit weary of having to dumb down and hide the fact I read books follow current affairs etc for fear of being dubbed “posh” or “up myself”. I had to do that for 7 years at school can’t be arsed to do so as an adult.

I think the opposite. When mine were little and also when they started school I was friendly with other mums in the area. All of them were v middle class whereas I am v working class and I also became a single mum during this time. I became friends with the women I got on with. I never felt they were looking down their noses at me, although I did have to miss coffee meet ups sometimes due to lack of funds. We all had more in common than we didn't have in common. I still know a couple of them today more than 30 years later.

@formerbabe

You have described me too!

@MsTSwift I’ve had similar experiences in life, maybe that’s why I feel this way. There are so many people on this thread talking about how middle class people have looked down on them but I think it can happen the other way too and that’s overlooked.

At the coffee morning I attended this morning I felt like I was ignored by the other mums even though I tried to be friendly. They were friendly enough to a few other new mums who joined. The only reason I can think off is the way that I speak or perhaps my race. I’d rather not think it was the latter.

Verticality - but that's all a massive stereotype. Surely each of those middle class traits you are sneering about is not actually incompatible with being intelligent, articulate and original in other ways. You don't have to have interesting and well-executed decor, play a musical instrument brilliantly or eschew National Trust properties to be an interesting person. Nor do the middle classes have a monopoly on a lack of original thought.

The thing that has made me not fit in with other mums has been attitudes to second hand baby clothes.

As an impoverished MC mum I was happy to take any freebies I could- almost all dc’s clothes were from charity shops. I saw this as a good way of saving money and prioritised spending on organic food for pfb.

But amongst the other more WC mums in the deprived area they would recoil in horror at the thought of second hand clothes- they had all new clothes- and not even just from supermarkets- branded trainers etc.

But then they would wean on cheap junk food and think I was splurging by using organic.

It meant I always had to be careful about what I said which was hard work.

But if I went to baby groups in the MC areas they would look down at me for being young/ unmarried. They would talk about their husbands or returning to their professional jobs after may leave and I couldn’t join in on the conversations.

Having young dcs was a very lonely time for me. I was on my own almost all the time due to not being able to make ‘mummy friends’.

Class conflict is rife in the U.K. and once people place you in a category it’s so hard to escape.

I’d recommend reading Kate Fox’s ‘reading the English’ if you are interested.

Not my experience. My family isn’t upper class in the traditional sense, no inherited titles or stately homes. But not middle class by mumsnet definition either. I suppose upper middle class maybe.

Maybe it’s because my main life experiences have been rural, and as long as I can remember a mix of everyone from the poorest labourers to aristocrats. The attitude was never about making assumptions based on social status or wealth.

My friends come from a wide range of backgrounds and have lifestyles across a similarly broad range, which to me is completely normal. I dare say I wouldn’t have much in common with the average benefits Britain tv star. But the same applies to many people claiming to be middle class. Wealth and career don’t define personality.

As for life experience, I think at least one, if not both parties would have very limited interests and experiences if you can’t find common ground. Discussing wealth and spending is vulgar anyway, unless it’s part of a relevant discussion with someone of similar means.

The only group I’ve ever struggled with as a whole are the pretentious try hard mc wannabes. I don’t like the falseness, and despise the sneering towards the less well off. Although I am amused by some of the desperate attempts to ‘prove’ themselves. And if they inadvertently notice my background is more entrenched than just my accent, either the arse licking or inverse snobbery that follows.

I wouldn’t be remotely bothered by the implied wealth of hiring a sleep consultant but I would have thought ‘fuck me, wasting the cost of a decent saddle’. Which demonstrates the difference wouldn’t be about income but about different outlooks.

OP, perhaps you could just be yourself and see how it goes. Try not to underestimate people - you may find that some would be interested in your sleep training chat and you have things in common.

I'm working class, live in one of the most deprived areas, dress from charity shops and so on. I can't help but think you'd judge me by assuming I'd be judging you. Maybe if you opened up a bit you'd enjoy it. My household income in in the six figures, we've a big old house and I've a Master's degree, but the other mums either don't know or couldn't care less and vice versa. We just chat and find common ground or debate differences.

Just to add though, that sometimes a little bit of censoring does no harm. If you're talking be to someone who struggles to feed their children, then it wouldn't be great to talk about your expensive meal out to them

I’m in a bit of a class wilderness (working class background but went to university and have a comfortable lifestyle). All the mum friends I have made since having my DS are non-British, I find it easier to get on with them as we don’t have the British class system issue to contend with.

Class isn't real. It's a made up, meaningless British thing.

It takes an extraordinary degree of privilege to deny the existence of the class system.

My kids do a sport that takes up most of their lives (and mine by extension). As a result I’ve met a group of people who are very different to my ‘regular’ friends. Some are incredibly wealthy, and some have kids who are heavily supported by the club, and everything invetween. They range from directors, through to academics, health visitors, dog walkers, SAHMs, single parents (I’m one of them), piece workers, etc. etc. A couple of them live in mansions and one or two live hand to mouth in deprived areas. Some are VERY posh, and some are very not. We are very bonded in a strange way. We all understand that, regardless of our background, we are all doing something that enables our kids to participate in a sport that consumes them (6 days a week). We all have a good laugh. We take the piss out of a posh one complaining that her Waitrose delivery was late, while the posh one will discretely donate uniform that one of hers has grown out of to someone to needs it. We look out for each other. That said, we never socialise (mind you, we see enough of each other!). They’re good people, regardless of their background. That said, once the kids leave, I’m not sure we’ll ever see them again outside of social media.

LellyMcKelly,
Football
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