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Original poster

Parents keep baby’s sex a secret to avoid gender bias

260 replies

Doyoumind · 17/09/2019 10:45

This story has been covered pretty widely but I don't think it's been mentioned on here.

A couple have a 17 month old who they refer to as 'they' and the couple didn't even tell family what sex the child is.

Fine, keep things gender neutral and avoid stereotypes but referring to your child only as 'they' is totally othering. They will soon hear other children being referred to differently.

Pretty soon that child will be talking. Unless it lives in a bubble and never has stories read to it that child will understand there are boys and girls and wonder which they are. They will start to realise the difference between when mummy and daddy go to the toilet, unless they are never to be seen naked. At that point they will know whether they are a boy or a girl if their parents are honest and explain the physical differences between male and female.

Their parents might be able to shield them from gender stereotypes to some extent bit they can't deny the obvious biology.

Or are they going to say only some men have penises and some women do too?

OP posts:
Chloemol · 17/09/2019 14:07

I am firmly in the ‘the worlds gone mad’ camp. They are being cruel to that child, who will be ridiculed by their peers or not knowing their own gender. You are born as a boy or girl, yes for a few this maybe the wrong body, but that’s what your parts dictate

hsegfiugseskufh · 17/09/2019 14:10

don't understand the "when would it end" question. Like I said, if we only had neutral pronouns, names, and fashions (hairstyles and clothes) then bias and stereotypes in the early years would be far reduced. That would be a good thing!

well when would kids learn/decide what sex they actually are? because at some point they will go through puberty and become considerably less "neutral" and then you're going to have a lot of very consumed teenagers who don't know whats happening to them...

we all know what happens when adults become gender neutral or fluid or whatever else we can call it now, just read the feminism boards!

Not sure what would be a disaster or haven for sexual predators about that either

i think it would just invite issues re personal space, toilets, changing rooms for small children etc

TheRipening · 17/09/2019 14:17

Then they should be proactive in encouraging their child to be open to all things rather than taking things to such an extreme that it can be psychologically damaging and very confusing

The problem is that there are a lot more external influences than just the child's parents!

well when would kids learn/decide what sex they actually are? because at some point they will go through puberty and become considerably less "neutral" and then you're going to have a lot of very consumed teenagers who don't know whats happening to them

Well, the post of mine you quoted was talking about not gendering infants through names, pronouns, toys and fashion choices, etc. Nothing about not telling them what sex they are or not letting people know their sex if/when necessary.

BiffNChips · 17/09/2019 14:18

I don't think people should be targeting their own children and "protecting" them from the commercialisation of gender. We need to provide our kids with a raibow of clothes and toys and let them choose what they want to like/play with. I have two girls. One was "give me pink" from very early on and wouldn't play with boys (and still doesn't at age 12). My other daughter loves every colour/toy and doesn't reject anything as "male" or for boys. My older girl wouldn't try on some M&S school shoes from the "boys" section yet they were identical to a "girls" pair apart from the lining colour (black for boys and pink for girls)! In the end we bought some online from Startrite that have black linings anyway but came up in the search as "girls" shoes. It's crazy really, but that's how she is wired. My younger daughter has been exposed to the same environment, tv shows etc yet happily wears blue/black/brown/pink and wants to be a "fireman", ballerina and a mum. That's how she is wired! My older daughter talks about not wanting children, yet she's the girly girl obsessed with all things pink and "feminine".

TheRipening · 17/09/2019 14:18

i think it would just invite issues re personal space, toilets, changing rooms for small children etc

We're talking about children who are too young to use any of these spaces alone anyway. They go with whichever parent they're with at the time.

BiffNChips · 17/09/2019 14:21

Posted too soon. We need to target those who commercialise gender differences rather than target our children.

TheRipening · 17/09/2019 14:21

I'm just saying, I like the idea of a world where pronouns are not gendered. Names are not gendered. Clothing and hairstyles are not gendered.

There, you wouldn't have to "hide" your child's sex, because it would just be unknown to most people. The child themself would know, and as they grew up they would start to use sex-specific toilets and changing rooms, so people would obviously know what sex they were. But there would be less of a rush to stereotype children in their formative years.

MartiniDry · 17/09/2019 14:22

Their daughter won't thank them for this when she gets older.

hsegfiugseskufh · 17/09/2019 14:24

theripening children go to school age 4. What happens then?

Amanduh · 17/09/2019 14:25

They’re totally stupid, it’s absolutely ridiculous and they and the child will be a laughing stock. Idiots. You are a he or a she. Will we have to call everyone them/they soon ffs?! What a load of old bollocks

IamWaggingBrenda · 17/09/2019 14:25

These stories always make me laugh and gag. So ridiculous. The people who claim their child is gender less or will let them decide themselves, already start from gender bias attitudes. I recall one such story where the parents stated they would give their child dolls and trucks and let them decide what they wanted to play with, making the stupid assumption that only boys played with trucks and only girls played with dolls. Talk about gender biases! And pretentious - they will “let their child grow into their own person”, as if that is the only way to do it. Utter nonsense in my view.

Original poster
Doyoumind · 17/09/2019 14:26

I get the point about the fact the child must be a girl otherwise they wouldn't worry but when I saw a picture of the child wearing pink and purple I thought it must be a boy.

OP posts:
Newname12 · 17/09/2019 14:33

well when would kids learn/decide what sex they actually are?

When do they? I don’t remember “teaching” my kids what sex they are. In fact thinking about it their awareness of boys and girls didn’t happen until around 2, even 3. And even then it was more gender behaviour- “boys like x, girls do y”, than penises and vagina.

So thinking about it if their plan is to let the child organically learn about sex as other children do, from observation of parents- as really they are the only other humans the child will see naked- it’s not going to do any harm, is it? It’s only adults who are struggling with the concept of not being identified bu sex or gender...

TheRipening · 17/09/2019 14:36

theripening children go to school age 4. What happens then?

They start school? Like I said, nothing needs to be hidden. So what is it you're asking about happening exactly?

hsegfiugseskufh · 17/09/2019 14:45

what if they still haven't decided what gender they are yet?

TheRipening · 17/09/2019 14:53

I never said they get to or have to decide what gender they are.

But even if they did, it wouldn't really matter. The whole point is gender would be almost irrelevant. They would use toilets based on their sex.

hsegfiugseskufh · 17/09/2019 14:58

so they'd know they were a boy or a girl, but would have to present as neutral?

its a no from me!

TheDarkPassenger · 17/09/2019 14:58

@notacooldad

😂😂😂

TheDarkPassenger · 17/09/2019 15:00

I think this is just asking for mental health and identity issues if I’m being totally honest

x2boys · 17/09/2019 15:12

It's all.a bit look.at us we are so different and special ,and what are they going to.do f the child " rebels " and wants to be known as what ever sex/ gender ( I can never remember which one is very he mumsnet preferred term) they were born into ?

TheRipening · 17/09/2019 15:13

so they'd know they were a boy or a girl, but would have to present as neutral?

They wouldn't "have" to do anything, that's kind of the point. I said I liked the idea of a world where clothes, hairstyles, names, toys and fashion were not gendered. I realise it's not realistic, I'm just saying it would be nice.

PeachesAndMayo · 17/09/2019 15:13

I'm all for challenging stereotypes. I hate the 'pink' for girls culture. Detest it. I wish instead of pigeonholing our kids we would encourage them to be any damn thing they want to be - soldier, astronaut, surgeon, pilot, irrespective of what sex they are. We need more male teachers in primary schools and we need more male nurses. There shouldn't be any embarrassment about men caring for their children. It's not unmanly. It's the hardest job in the world to do 24/7. We need more women in places of authority, bringing their different skills to decision making in this world, and not just trying to 'out-men the men' to be accepted. This couple being daft - the child is going to meet up with sex bias fairly soon and without being given the strength to hold on to their own identity, is liable to be swept along in whatever fad is most up-to-date. They better start sexing their child and giving them the tools to stand up for themselves quite soon.

CameraTime · 17/09/2019 15:15

Wasn't there a couple who did this about 20 years ago? I think I remember them being on This Morning or something. I'm fairly sure the child was called Storm. Would be interesting to see how that panned out.

Samcro · 17/09/2019 15:16

it must be so nice to just have this to worry about as a parent. really is this just so the parents can feel different and special.

AnonAgainToday · 17/09/2019 15:21

Bonkers!!!

But he/she is a v cute little baby :) and the family look happy! Mum and dad seem very loving, so hopefully they'll see sense at some point soon!