If your friend has a skill that could help you, would you expect to pay full price?

[thisusernameismine]

Not sure if this has been talked about before - but in short, a friend of mine (known for many many years but see each other only annually as on opposite sides of the world) has become a life coach in the last couple of years. The friend does talk about it often when we meet and I'm very proud of how she's made a success of a new career.

I'm at the end of mat leave and feeling in a bit of a rut in terms of my career - I feel it's a dead end job and I'd love to completely change what I do for a living but have a big inner critic (this is my main issue and the kind of problem my friend specialises in). I shared this with my friend and asked her if she thought coaching me could work given we know each other so well. I fully expect to pay as it's her business, but my DH is outraged that I'm being charged full price for the exploratory session. The coaching packages are a little extortionate so I'm not sure if I could afford them anyway (mat leave pay!) but possibly could just about pay for the smallest programme.

Just interested in others' opinions as my Dh's is so different from mine. He said if a good friend of his had a skill, they would never charge him as it's only 1-3 hours I'm being offered so in his opinion, hardly damaging for her business. I'm not sure whether to go ahead now

What do people think the word 'mates rates' means?
In my experience it means:

Hinting and pushing for teacher friends to do weekly tutoring that would normally cost £30-35 an hour for nothing for the 2 years of a GCSE course.

Expecting not very close friends who are musicians to play at various weekend events for free, or worse, "exposure".

Wanting someone to do decorating / electrical works / gardening for free or at trade prices

Wanting a friend who is a hairdresser to just do a trim for you

And crucially, it's almost always one sided by chancers

I’ve a friend who’s a digital artist.

They designed the cover for my novel. I paid them in full for their time and skill. No question about it. I wouldn’t underpay random artists, why should I expect to underpay a friend?

The way I see it is, if it’s during business hours and you’re not paying, you’re damaging my business. If it’s after hours you’re expecting me to work in my free time for your benefit when everyone else would be paying an out of hours charge.

Hmm, how good a friend are you talking..?! I have this with good friends of mine: we are all self employed and usually end up in a kind of daft (but at the same time lovely) dance of generosity - they try to give me a discount, I (genuinely) try hard to refuse and pay full price, they insist, etc etc, then I end up accepting discount but giving my services in return as a thank you gift! we all get what we want, and all get full value for it in some way or another! It's great.
And we've all found it's the 'mates' that actually are really little more than casual friends want/expect more or freebies....

crucially, it's almost always one sided by chancers

From experience, I have to agree. Doing something for a close friend or as a bartering process is one thing, but it's amazing how many friends and family the chancers have, who also pop up with the "can you justs ..."

This is how a lovely young mug mechanic I know has come to be working on the car of his partner's sister's boyfriend's mother's friend - and all without so much as a thank you

Would any of those askers happily work at their day job for no salary? Thought not.

TheseThingsAreFunAndFunIsGood
The reciprocal nature of it is key, or at the very least that someone isn't piss taking

E.g. One of my friends is good at nails (hobby), she'll do my nails for me for free because I hate the smell of nail places. I can't offer much in return, but do give advice on school things and bring the cake.

As ever, piss takes and chancers are there in friendships.

Of course you offer full price and not ask for 'mate's rates' or free. CFery.

A good friend would never ask you to work free of charge, a crap friend would expect it.

wouldn’t go to a friend for coaching like this, in the same way that I wouldn’t go to a counselling friend for counselling. By all means go to a life coach, but choose someone you don’t know, and who can be impartial. I’m surprised your friend agreed to do it rather than recommending someone else

This

What do people think the word 'mates rates' means?

It's usually when people aren't reliant on it for their living.

I.e. a mechanic or builder doing jobs "on the side" of their main job, cash in hand, no tax, etc. They get their normal wage to live on.

Or a wife with a "hobby" business for pin money when they have a partner with a proper job/business that pays the bills.

If someone is reliant on their business to pay the bills, they're in no position to give mates rates and real friends wouldn't ask.

I would never expect a friend to do any work for me cheaply or free. One of my friends is an electrician ...and my go to person for electrical and also general handyman stuff. I pay him the going rate.

Another friend is a psychiatrist who saw my niece privately for postnatal depression and absolutely refused to charge her because she was my niece....he and I go back a long way though.

I'd expect mates rates certainly, especially as you're close friends.

But I'd also know this was her income, and by working with you (a bit cheaper), she might be missing out on better paid work with another client.

I think the crucial thing here is whether the ‘mates rates’ are being offered or expected/demanded.

I would give friends a discount (or FOC) on the skilled work I do, but I don’t think any of my friends would actually ask me for money off - it’s a bit gauche isn’t it? It’s a pleasure to help people out, but most people have more grace than to badger for money off! Of course, if someone’s genuinely struggling and needs help, that’s different, and I wouldn’t mind them being frank.

Of course mates rates are a thing, but it’s the sense of entitlement that’s a bit odd, imo.

I know a woman who asked a family member to fix her car and made it clear she wouldn't be paying for his time. She was genuinely surprised when he charged her for the parts needed for the job.

I run a business and tend to give freebies to friends, but then it's mostly at my own convenience. If I was being asked to provide a stream of products then I probably would expect payment. It might be that she is building up her business and really needs the money and reviews from you. Negotiating money with friends can be tricky so ensure that the price is arranged beforehand and that you are both happy with it; also that it doesn't affect your friendship in any way. . There is a reason they say that "Business and pleasure should not mix"!

I would expect to pay full price, would accept a small discount but would prefer to use someone else than get a big discount or pay nothing. The only circumstances I would accept mates rates would be if someone was ordering something for me, so for example a friend has recently set up a wine shop and bar. I pay full price if I drink there, and gladly so, but we will often get to taste unusual bottles or some other little perk. If I wanted to order wine through him I know he would do it at cost, which I wouldn't be happy about, but I would accept cost price + a small margin for him.

There is a reason they say that "Business and pleasure should not mix"!

Indeed. We had friends who ran a local "tradesmen" business. They then became clients when we started our own business. All was fine until we used them for a job at our home. They screwed it up spectacularly - complete incompetence, nearly killed us with fumes due to fitting a gas fire wrongly. We had them back several times as the fumes were overpowering but they kept just fobbing us off saying it was a new fire burning off the dust etc. Eventually, we got the manufacturers in under the warranty - the condemned it and turned off the gas supply saying it was dangerously installed - they even showed us the installation instructions which our "friend" had clearly not bothered to follow - it was clear to us that certain parts weren't fitted the right way! No way could we stay friends after that!

Yes of course you pay full price!

I'm a nanny by career and i have bills to pay. If I kept giving out free or heavily reduced childcare then I'd be relying on foodbanks.

These people have trained and studied for years to get where they are and they need to make a living.
If they offer you 'mates rates' then that's extremely kind, but it's not something you should expect

I am self employed offering a not altogether dissimilar service to your friend. I would definitely give a good friend a reduced rate but def not free as that starts to blur boundaries (and I couldn’t afford to).
I also run another business and always give friends a reduced rate when selling them items from that business.
As my husband says, it’s nice to be kind sometimes. I don’t believe in any god-driven karma but I definitely believe that treating people with kindness and a bit of compassion (and yes that can sometimes mean a reduced rate on something they may otherwise struggle to pay for) is kind and always gets repaid - in my experience anyway.
I personally think your friend might/should have offered something by way of acknowledging that you are a friend - even if it was full rate but she offered you a free follow up or simply extended the length of the session as a kindness to a friend.
If I were you I would be a little sad rather than cross that she is charging you the same as a client who is a complete stranger.
It would make me less keen to recommend her or offer a testimonial.

Absolutely I would fully expect to pay the whole price. It would be an insult to her otherwise. It's her living!

If you can afford it go to someone else. Its not a good idea for a friend to become involved in your decisions no matter how well qualified. Certainly would not expect a reduced fee never mind for free.

I hate people expecting 'mates rates'/free work for them. They might as well demand the food out of my fridge or to move into the spare room.

I still have to pay my bills, whether somebody respects my skill and that it is literally how I make a living or whether, like your DP/H, they are a freeloading dick.

Each to their own but she could charge friends rates maybe half price

‘Mates rates’ are fine if the person providing the services offers. They shouldn’t feel compelled to though, they have bills to pay and if they want to charge you full price, you should respect their decision and not push it.