If your friend has a skill that could help you, would you expect to pay full price?

[thisusernameismine]

Not sure if this has been talked about before - but in short, a friend of mine (known for many many years but see each other only annually as on opposite sides of the world) has become a life coach in the last couple of years. The friend does talk about it often when we meet and I'm very proud of how she's made a success of a new career.

I'm at the end of mat leave and feeling in a bit of a rut in terms of my career - I feel it's a dead end job and I'd love to completely change what I do for a living but have a big inner critic (this is my main issue and the kind of problem my friend specialises in). I shared this with my friend and asked her if she thought coaching me could work given we know each other so well. I fully expect to pay as it's her business, but my DH is outraged that I'm being charged full price for the exploratory session. The coaching packages are a little extortionate so I'm not sure if I could afford them anyway (mat leave pay!) but possibly could just about pay for the smallest programme.

Just interested in others' opinions as my Dh's is so different from mine. He said if a good friend of his had a skill, they would never charge him as it's only 1-3 hours I'm being offered so in his opinion, hardly damaging for her business. I'm not sure whether to go ahead now

I think if I were the friend in this case, I'd offer a discount/first session free. Depends how good the relationship is I suppose.
Agree with others though - coaching from a friend doesn't seem like a good idea.

As PPs have said...
I wouldn't see a life coach. I'd see a properly trained councillor. It's easy to call yourself a life coach. The courses can be very basic and impossible to fail.

I am at a loss how some of them justify their fees.

TheAlternativeTentacle, so every time I use my counselling skills, when my friends are going through tough times, i should charge them?

When i help friends/neighbours with, filling in DLA/PIP forms, giving Social Care/legal advice etc I should charge?

I went in when a neighbour had a fall and gave instructions to two male neighbours to help them get up again. I should have charged?

I often think it's strange that people who work in 'caring' jobs only do it, if they are being paid.

I also think it's a shame we've stopped helping each other.

I own a scaffolding company and its amazing how many of our "friends" have expected free scaffolding and turn a bit weird when presented with the invoice. We still have to pay the scaffolders (between £120-170 a day), insurance, materials, diesel etc plus our scaffs are then held up at the friends house for the day so not out somewhere else making a profit for the company, then spending a day taking it down again. We charge friends to cover costs with no profit made but its still been a concept some friends can't understand. One just laughed when we gave him the bill and never paid it, thinking it was a joke. Its been so long now we've kind of forgotten about it, but the "friendship" has died a death.

DH is self employed & yes very very very good friends or family he will do some work & be be provided with for food/beer but not on a working day as he would miss out on earnings, only an evening or weekend.

Les close friends would likely get a mates rate, depends on the size of job really

I think your DH is 100% correct! I have my own small clothing business and I don't charge my friends full price! If it's not actually costing her anything but her time I think she's unreasonable to charge full price.

Mates rates n all that...

To be honest I think with something like this I'd go to someone who isn't a friend. It's not like you're buying a product or service where you can see the results on other people yourself before you decide (eg builder where you can look at other things they've done). Its a lot more like counselling. Say you don't like her advice or you follow it and things dont turn out as well as you hoped. Or you disclose something very confidential, is she supposed to bring it up if it's relevant when you're back to discussing things as friends? What if you want to talk to her again as a friend about a new job or something (as friends do - eg I've had two job offers and csnt decide, what do you think etc) and she charges you for a follow on session?

I'd honestly say you've thought about it and you value her friendship so much youd rather not muddy the waters with work, and see if there is anyone else she can suggest to help you

I am self employed and do without thinking give free time to friends in need. They always say ‘hope this won’t take too much time’ and give me flowers/chocolates. I wouldn’t ever do this if it were more than 2-3 hours. Frankly more than that it goes beyond initial advice and they should be seeking full indépendant advice anyway.
Agree I would not want a friend to provide life coach services - it involves all sorts of disclosure and sometimes tough advice and follow up progress scrutiny etc. Messy for both sides of a friendship unless very initial sketchy advice only.

If it's not actually costing her anything but her time I think she's unreasonable to charge full price.

So what does she use to pay the mortgage and put food on the table? Do you think she's found Labour's magic money tree?

It amazes me that people don't understand time-based businesses. If you're not making/selling a physical product, then all you have is your time to sell.

In my business, I see the effect of "mates" giving half-baked advice and it's not pretty. It's usually incomplete, misguided or completely wrong and usually does more harm than good.

With anything "knowledge based" you either do it properly or you do it wrong. Doing something quickly, giving a quick "off the cuff" answer, usually means you don't take the time to do the fact finding, thinking time, research time, etc.

I would expect to pay full price rather than mate’s rates, yes.

This is why friendship and business should be seperate.

I suppose it depends on how much it is worth to them money wise.Db owns a bar and I know that if I visit I dont have to pay for drinks (I wouldn't take the piss) but if it was for hundreds then no I wouldn't expect it for free.

so every time I use my counselling skills, when my friends are going through tough times, i should charge them?

If you are taking days off work to help then yes.

I have been offered mates rates in the past and declined as i value their skills, experience and know they need to eat.

I agree with most of the other pp. You should not expect “mates rates”. Personally I think life coaching is a big con anyway. I would prefer to sit down with a coffee, or better still a Prosecco, with a few sensible and unbiased friends to discuss my options.

It amazes me that people don't understand time-based businesses. If you're not making/selling a physical product, then all you have is your time to sell.

This amazes me as well.
My time is money. If I spend a Saturday performing at some "friend's" wedding for free then that's a whole Saturday I have lost where I could be performing for what amounts to a significant proportion of my monthly income.
If I teach a couple of friends' children piano for half-price that adds up to a lot of money over the course of the school year.
I only have a certain number of hours per week when I can earn money and these hours have to be sold otherwise I will end up in financial difficulty.

Forgot to add what actual qualifications does your “Life Coach” friend have?

my DH is outraged that I'm being charged full price for the exploratory session.

Is he indeed.
What does DH do for a living? Is he happy to rock up to a mate's house & give 3 hours of his professional time for nothing? Where does it end?

However ... maybe you don't need a life caoch, & certainly not one who is also a friend. Your 'big inner critic' sunds like a case of low self esteem to me, & you may be better off with a therapist or counsellor.

Personally I think life coaching is a big con anyway.

I'm guessing you've never experienced any, @Mushypeasandchipstogo.

On the other hand a friend made our wedding cake and I refused to pay her the price she quoted because this was the first wedding cake she had ever made and so although she had qualified as a pattisier she had no experience or portfolio at that point to justify charging full price. So it does depend

good lord, you actually seem proud of yourself! I'll bet that you didn't tell her you weren't paying the full amount until after she had spent her time and effort making your wedding cake!

Unbelievable.

I think its unprofessional of her to have accepted you as a client.

There is far too much potential for the waters to be muddied between what is friendhip and what is coaching. There are huge overlaps between what a 'life coach' does and what happens as part of a normal friendship, especially if it is about overcomning your inner critic.

I often discuss job applications with friends, and in the run up to an interview will talk about the kinds of questions you might get asked, what you'll wear etc. etc. Will you suddenly find yourself getting charged for these conversations?

People often don't appreciate things they get for free or heavily discounted and can start to take the piss a bit. I wouldn't be surprised if she's had her fingers burned before. And with life coaching who knows where the freebies/discounts would end? After the assessment session? What if you want additional advice afterwards? Her time is chargable, and if she doesn't bill you it comes out of her own pocket. For the sake of the friendship, unless there's some reciprocal arrangement where you can help her with something, it's best to just charge the going rate so everyone knows where they stand.

I would however really caution against using a friend for something like this. I needed a therapist about a year ago and could have gone to my BF's DMum who is very, very well respected in her field. But I knew it would probably be too "close" a relationship even at that- the woman has known me since I was 6! So I asked for a recommendation from her instead which she very happily gave. And I was very glad I did, because the therapist I saw in the end confronted me with some harsh points and asked me uncomfortable questions which I'm not sure I would have been able to answer honestly had I seen DF's Mum.

If you are her only friend, then it's reasonable. But if EVERY person she knows who is having a wobble about their life/career asked her for a free coaching program, she would be homeless.

I have a skill from which I make my living and if everyone I know expected a freebie or "mates rates" I wouldn't have time for actual paying clients.

THAT HAVING BEEN SAID. Don't work with a friend, and certainly not in this niche. There are a billion life coaches (I should know - many are my clients!) and some of them are actually relatively good at what they do. It shouldn't be hard to find someone.

This person, for instance, is not a client (and she's not me!), but I really like her website and she has some great material - everesse.co/coaching - but honestly, Google it, or ask on some of the better FB groups for personal recommendations.

I have a friend who's job is something I use quite a lot, she always wants me to pay less but I always insist on paying her rate, it's her livelihood and she's my friend, I'm not going to stiff her, as her friend I should be looking after her more than strangers. The odd time she will insist on me not paying for something but I will return the favour if she ever needs something done in my line of work.

Not paying the quoted price for a wedding cake is beyond rude.

I would never buy or sell anything to a friend or family member; if things go wrong, I reckon it's much harder to undo.

For those of you who are trained counsellors, do you find it difficult to 'switch off' when talking to friends?