Am I missing something? Its the EU that don't want to do a deal, not the UK so why all the flack to Boris?

[QuiQuaiQuod]

Am I naïve? Am I interpreting this right? I'm so sick and tired of the whole thing, but isn't it the EU that are playing silly buggers in their petulance? Boris is trying to do a deal.

Yet everyone is blasting HIM.

BTW I voted remain but accepted the result and just want it all over and done with, plus the attitude of Brussels and remOANERS,- not Remainers who accept result -has been abysmal .

I am not a fan of Boris BTW but he seems to know what to do. Or have I had my head stuck in the sand for the last 3 years?

Please be gentle, no bun fights, a sensible discussion please,

I thought i was making a reasoned argument about the importance of respecting a democratic vote.
The vote has been proven in court to be invalid under UK electoral law.
It therefore does not deserve full respect.

Also, please define which version of Leave you want
and what compromises you are willing to accept for that ?

Leaving is just the beginning! If we leave especially with no deal it will take DECADES to get back on track.

Shouting was maybe the wrong word - calling then.

"But he's not the only one engaging in political shenanigans"

And nobody has said he is, but he is by far the one doing the most damage with his and not just re brexit. You can't ignore the constitution and laws of the land and not expect that to have far reaching consequences

As for Johnson being an idiot I WISH he was! What's terrifying is that he isn't. He's cunning and knowledgable and sly and most definitely cowardly but he is not stupid

But a vote was held and the majority voted to leave

If you read the debate in Hansard when the referendum bill had its second reading, you'll see that the question of what leave looked like came up.

And it's obvious that all kinds of leave were on the table.

So you'll forgive Parliament, our elected representatives, struggling to get a solution that enables us to Leave, when Leave means so many things to people.

But you've probably heard that argument before....

Hi Op.

I asked a similar simple type question on the Brexit board a few days ago. I was given some great clear and diverse answers. No bun fight. It was really refreshing . Go to chat and just type in Brexit to find the board. X

Tillytrotter the EU has already negotiated.

Negotiations are over. Done. Finished.

Signatures of EU representatives and Theresa May are long dried on the Withdrawal Agreement.

What the current UK PM is doing is pissing every ounce of British credibility and British reputation up the wall.

It is now clear to the whole world that the UK does not enter negotiations in good faith and regards negotiated agreements as worthless pieces of paper.

I thought i was making a reasoned argument about the importance of respecting a democratic vote

It is important.

What does Leave look like?

Tulips

“at least he's trying to respect the will of the people.”

As an advocate of democracy, surely you’re happy to test that will with a second referendum, where voters are better informed of the likely consequences of their vote?

It wasn’t “the will” of 48% of the people and that figure is estimated, by people who’s job it is to know these things like John Curtis, to have increased.

Why is that such an unreasonable position?

I thought i was making a reasoned argument about the importance of respecting a democratic vote

And if you think that democracy is important, you'll have no issue with an agreement being put back to the people and them being asked if this what they thought Leave looks like and are they happy with it?

As an advocate of democracy, surely you’re happy to test that will with a second referendum, where voters are better informed of the likely consequences of their vote?

Excellent question but Ime you'll either not get ah answer or the answer will make no sense - eg "we already voted" etc

Mathanxiety
“It is now clear to the whole world that the UK does not enter negotiations in good faith and regards negotiated agreements as worthless pieces of paper.”

Of course, the rest of the world will be queuing up to sign trade deals with a nation that’s seriously proposing to rename on the £billions it is legally obliged to pay to the EU.
“Easiest trade deal in history”. FFS.

Renege, not rename 🙄

Unfortunately democracy doesn't work like that. Its vote, result, oh bollox

The referendum was advisory = advise parliament of public opinion. It remains parliament's responsibility to decide what to do. If they now decide, actually having finally given some thought to what leaving really looks like, that it is not in the best interest of the country, then it is for Parliament to decide what to do about it.

There are all sorts of questions about how they should have made this clearer, how they should have had more detail before the referendum, how they should have made the rules about campaigning much clearer but at the end of the day, a system of Parliamentary democracy means that Parliament makes the decisions.

As Edmund Burke said of an MP that he “owes you, not his industry only, but his judgment; and he betrays, instead of serving you, if he sacrifices it to your opinion”.