Am I missing something? Its the EU that don't want to do a deal, not the UK so why all the flack to Boris?

[QuiQuaiQuod]

Am I naïve? Am I interpreting this right? I'm so sick and tired of the whole thing, but isn't it the EU that are playing silly buggers in their petulance? Boris is trying to do a deal.

Yet everyone is blasting HIM.

BTW I voted remain but accepted the result and just want it all over and done with, plus the attitude of Brussels and remOANERS,- not Remainers who accept result -has been abysmal .

I am not a fan of Boris BTW but he seems to know what to do. Or have I had my head stuck in the sand for the last 3 years?

Please be gentle, no bun fights, a sensible discussion please,

Football. You are talking a common sense approach but unfortunately with the present political elite it ain't gonna happen.

LaurieMarlow

“People should be protesting on the streets to get rid of him.”

Public apathy is one of the most frightening aspects of our situation.
If anyone has been watching The Rise of the Nazis, episode 2 is just crammed with so many parallels between The Nazi Party’s mo in 1933/34 and this Governments tactics. Chillingly, it took just over 6 months for them to destroy democracy and take control of government and institutions. Particularly, a leader who refused to engage with Parliament, surrounded himself with sycophants and ideologues and branded all opposition as unpatriotic and in democratic. It wasn’t too long until the “other” was identified and blamed for the nation’s ills. That’s next here. It’s terrifying.

Anyone else think this is one of Johnson’s advisors trying to gauge the public mood?
No

@Ohflippineck Godwins! Bingo.

familycourtq

“Godswins. Bingo”

I’m relatively new at this and don’t know what your comment means.
Suspect it’s not complimentary . Please, just watch the film. The parallels are startling. The learned commentators clearly believe so too. Or as elites, must their expert opinions be discounted? (another parallel, funnily enough).

What, familycourtq, Mike Godwin?

Who said:
"If you're thoughtful about it and show some real awareness of history, go ahead and refer to Hitler when you talk about Trump, or any other politician."

And who criticized the overapplication of Godwin's Law?

That Godwin's Law?

ohflippingheck. The difference between the 1930s and the rise of the Nazi party is democracy was relatively new during that part of the century compared to a long established U.K. democracy nearly a century later. Much harder to overturn, but I do see why it is worrying and we should always learn from history (and not repeat it).

Witnessed by how even a parliamentary decision to suspend parliament is being challenged in the court.

Oh sorry, didn't paste link: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

Thanks, yellowwallpaper). I meant relatively new to MN, not history 😁. Wasn’t sure what the bingo reference meant. Mother in law is German, born in early 1930s to a working class family. we’ve had fascinating conversations and she fully concurs. I would have agreed with you in respect of it being much harder to overturn our democracy. Until we found our PM charged in court with proroguing with dishonest intent and threatening to override the law and take us out with no deal. They are willing and, it seems, able to ride roughshod over all convention, the general public is largely apathetic and I’m fearful of where it will end. “Oh, that could never happen here” is precisely how things happen. Hopefully, I’m a fool and completely deluded.

yellowwallpapet

Witnessed by how even a parliamentary decision to suspend parliament is being challenged in the court.”

See where you’re coming from but I see it from another angle: that a UK Government should even have attempted such duplicity is shocking.

But people turn a blind eye to the lib dems statement to ignore a democratic vote.

No, I think that’s wrong, a second referendum is the only answered, with informed choice this time. Although you could argue that they have said that policy would only be enacted if they won an election outright, effectively a second referendum.
I don’t agree with their position though (much as I personally would love to revoke).

Good for the EU I say, they’re protecting their member states. I’m embarrassed by the state of UK politics, we’re a joke.

Public apathy is one of the most frightening aspects of our situation.
If anyone has been watching The Rise of the Nazis, episode 2 is just crammed with so many parallels between The Nazi Party’s mo in 1933/34 and this Governments tactics. Chillingly, it took just over 6 months for them to destroy democracy and take control of government and institutions. Particularly, a leader who refused to engage with Parliament, surrounded himself with sycophants and ideologues and branded all opposition as unpatriotic and in democratic. It wasn’t too long until the “other” was identified and blamed for the nation’s ills. That’s next here. It’s terrifying.

I think this perefectly explains why this debacle is FAAAR more than just about brexit.

It's concerned with the sort of country people want to live in.

Facists, Trump and Putin love brexit and canvass for it.

It's screamingly obvious.

The biggest problem imho is the absolute lack of consensus from start to finish.

MrPan

Apparently my opinion is a cliche, MrPan, and worthy of a bingo. I thought it was screamingly obvious too. So did the range of experts commentating on the programme. But hey ho, what do they know? I know even less. I just detect hostility, anger and a need to be suspicious of and blame others on the rise all around me.
But we live in a democracy and it can never happen here, so that’s me told.

Yes, I've had "ah it will be all alright".

This is because we've enjoyed a comparative 'liberal' consensus since WW2. We take it for granted.

Adherents of brexit wish to smash that.

Come the revolution comrades

@Ohflippineck I'm not saying that the rise of Hitler couldn't have happened in the UK. I am saying that although I have no time for Boris and I have never voted Tory, Boris isn't Hitler and he won't become Hitler.

familycourtq

Exactly why I didn’t refer to Hitler or Johnson. There are far more sinister, dangerous, idealistic characters lurking behind him. He’s a front man puppet, here today gone tomorrow to be replaced by someone far more fearful I suspect. Its what the Conservative Party is becoming that truly scares me.

And the labour party fills me with the Joy's of spring

@ohflippineck Oh, OK. Who is the Hitler figure then? Just asking so I know who we need to watch out for.

Its what the Conservative Party is becoming that truly scares me.

Fuck me if you have only just noticed what a load of nasty hits they are then that's amazing but welcome. They have been nasty anti-democratic gits since Thatcher.

I don't think the 'characters' are immediately inter-changeable, due to differing circumstances. But the behaviours ARE directly inter-changable, which is really scary for our futures.