To think Sam Smith is being ridiculous?

[gc400]

For asking to be called they/them?

Good for you

@LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD
Semantics...

Include/consider... it does both

Don't be so obtuse

@SmellbowSpaceBowl

Good for you

Trying to get them on the phone is a fucking nightmare because their calls are screened by a sycophantic handmaiden who insists on correcting you if you don't win the 'what are they calling themselves today' lottery when you ring and ask for them

Interestingly, when you speak to Fergie's agents, at least her old ones, they insist you refer to her as 'The Duchess' at all times

Awwww that’s what my old mum used to say 😘

And I wasn’t anyway - words have specific meanings dontcha know.

Re. pronouns tizzybell apparently there are 'hundreds of options':

"Wikipedia's gender-neutral pronouns page lists 14 "non-traditional pronouns" in English, though three are variants of "ze". Other online resources for the non-binary community, however, offer hundreds of options."

from www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34901704

So if people have asked you to respect their pronouns you should really do that if you actually are an ally. After all, what harm is it to you?

I'm kind of on the fence with this one. On the one hand I don't really care and if I met someone in real life that felt this made them happy I'd make the effort as I don't see the harm in it. Someone I know through a friend uses Ze I think?? Maybe that would make more grammatical sense!

Also I agree with other people re. the OTT heels, make-up, 'grrrrl', parody femininity thing. I find that sort of irritating since I know no women at all that behave like that. I don't think a drag/pantomime style expression of femininity is the answer to rejecting traditional masculinity either.

It includes teaching him that if he feels a set of externally imposed, societal expectations used to scaffold his behaviour and maintain the patriarchy do not fit him, then he should resist them

So if your son came out to you as trans, you'd expect him to resist it, not do it? Not accept it as you've taught him that he shouldn't feel that way?
Wow.
OK

(really hope I've intepretated that wrong)

So if people have asked you to respect their pronouns you should really do that if you actually are an ally. After all, what harm is it to you?

This, I mean they and their might head hurt me and I might think it's daft (as it's plural!!!! ) but it doesn't affect me to say they and their really, does it?

Ark at tizzy she’s been a grown up for 2 minutes and thinks she can tell us how our thinking is all wrong. I’m a feminist thank you. . Oh and I’m also not one of those, who you consider have fucked this country up. Not old enough, see just very very wise.

Grammatically it makes sense. Not they. I get the connotation would be all wrong so ze is fine by me.

cant stand him absolutely crap singer whiney voice so who cares what he says.

it doesn't affect me to say they and their really, does it?

Yes it doesn't. But where does the wider ideology lead to? It's far more serious, indeed sinister, than just swapping out 'he/she' for 'they/them'. It's the ideology behind it which we take issue with. If you can be 'a bit of a woman' then what is it to be a woman?

Will there eventually be two categories of women i.e. we are the 'uterus havers'? We are already using ridiculous language e.g. 'pregnant people'. This is the insidious erosion of womanhood whilst we nod along politely so as to not offend a few men. It's more than just respecting someone's right to be 'who they are'. I'm all for live and let live but not at the expense of women.

So if your son came out to you as trans

What's your definition of being trans Roses? Do you think people can literally be born in the wrong body?

So if people have asked you to respect their pronouns you should really do that if you actually are an ally. After all, what harm is it to you?

^^ That was in response to tizzys frankly restrictive stance on pronouns and refusal to respect a previous poster's chosen pronoun.
Seems only SOME people get to choose their pronouns.

Under what circumstances would a boy who understands that his sex is fixed and his gender behaviours are fluid decide he was a woman?
Well, he wouldn't "decide to be a woman" if he was sure of who he was, would he?
What you seem to be saying though is that you teach them to be a certain way and if they don't feel that way they should resist.
Just.... OK. We're obviously never going to agree as that if so is the exact same dangerous attitude towards gay people as well.
Resist.
You might be OK with that but I never will be.

Oh and I'm not trans or non binary or whatever but I'm fairly sure you don't just wake up one morning and think "do you know what, I will be today!"
FFS.
You're not in your sons head. You're not them.
All the shit you get like this, you're not going to do it on a whim for the giggles, are you?

Ooh you are back tizzy , can you answer my point about the damage of stereotypes and why women are not allowed to object to that.

Roses, I think they were being sarcastic when they made that point unfortunately

@Mummyoflittledragon "she's been a grown up for two mins" oh here we go, I'm 24 so I obviously know nothing... sounds like ageism to me!

I've probably had a lot more life experience than any of the narrow minded fools here! You wouldn't believe the things you can go through by the age of 13!

YABU. Does it cause you any harm to call them by what they'd like to be called? Even if you don't get it/ it's not what you'd do?