To ask why I feel sex work is a bit wrong?

[sweatyscruffy]

So I'm fully preparing to get flamed here!
Bf came round last night, I asked her how it was going as her university friends have moved in with her and her dh for a while. Bf's friend was doing webcam work with her dp previously and they were continuing to earn an absolute mint doing it (£30,000 in three months once!) I don't really see anything wrong with it as it's doing what they do anyway with a few cameras filming. The other girl is a medical professional, also part time escort. My bf was telling me about it as if it was the best thing ever. Apparently the agency only takes on clients earning over £50,000, and only contracts girls who know how to talk to and entertain very rich men. It involves a lot of trips to London and Europe, occasionally Dubai. Maybe I sound jealous but the whole thing made me a bit sad. Yes she's a grown woman, yes she knows what she's doing but imagine having to pretend that you find these old men interesting or sexually attractive?
She apparently specifies 40+ men only so she gets the really rich ones so I bet there's a good chance a lot of them are married, not that it's her fault they're choosing to sleep with prostitutes. I try so hard to be ok with it and think of it as feminist but I still feel it's a bit seedy. I'm trying so hard to not judge!

"It’s odd. Why would you want to sleep with someone who doesn’t really want to sleep you, who wouldn’t sleep with you if you weren’t paying them?"

I take heart that most men consider paying for sex repulsive for any of the many reasons it's repulsive.

Some men I've spoken with have admitted to trying paid-for sex once because our pornsick capitalist culture promotes it as a terrific experience, but they found it to be deeply unsexy and unfulfilling and were never tempted to do it again.

Even if there are some women who don’t mind that men abuse them, it still doesn’t mean it’s okay for men to do it.

Do you understand why men pay sex workers? Do you think that its because its the only way they can get a shag and therefore they have to pay? It's not.

Charlie Sheen, when asked why he paid for sex when he was young, good looking, rich and famous, replied "I don't. I have never paid for sex. I can get that free anytime. I'm not paying for the sex, I'm paying them to leave."

SGB, it's not society telling women what they can do with their bodies, it's society telling men what they can't do with their money.

By default though that's taking choice away from women.
Telling women what they can and can't do with their bodies.
How is that OK?
We should be able to be in charge of doing what the hell we want with them without you saying we can't do something.

Even if there are some women who don’t mind that men abuse them, it still doesn’t mean it’s okay for men to do it

Has anybody said they are OK and don't mind being abused though?
I don't think they have? Nobody's said anything like that unless I've missed it.
I mean who the heck would be OK with being abused?
I don't think they would, I know I wouldn't be

Has anybody said they are OK and don't mind being abused though?
I don't think they have? Nobody's said anything like that unless I've missed it.

Some posters on this thread are making the argument that some prostitutes don’t consider themselves victims and feel that, even when they’re being paid for sex, they maintain autonomy over their bodies.

I’m not arguing they’re wrong to think that. But the men who pay them for sex certainly don’t consider them autonomous. And in fact, the lack of autonomy is the attraction for punters.

"We should be able to be in charge of doing what the hell we want with them without you saying we can't do something.":

Coins and bills are not parts of bodies. You get to choose to have as much sex as you want, fifty men a day if that's your (unhealthy) choice, but money is a government-issued resource and we all get a say in how society operates.

@RosesAndRaindrops - funny how that argument applies to prostitution on mumsnet but not all the threads about surrogacy and how wrong/terrible/immoral it is for ‘rich’ couples to be able to ‘use’ a woman’s body for money. I wonder why.

I don’t agree with either but it seems the MN opinion is men who want sex - should be legal for them to pay a woman for it. People want a baby - tough. Very weird.

I don’t agree with either but it seems the MN opinion is men who want sex - should be legal for them to pay a woman for it. People want a baby - tough. Very weird.

Really? The threads I have read on mumsnet have been mostly arguing against surrogacy.

*funny how that argument applies to prostitution on mumsnet but not all the threads about surrogacy and how wrong/terrible/immoral it is for ‘rich’ couples to be able to ‘use’ a woman’s body for money. I wonder why

My view on that would be the same as my view on this thread - if a woman is happy and willing and actually wants to use her body to help give other couples a chance at having a baby, why should she be told no you can't, you're being used?
If that's what she WANTS to do with her body? She wants to carry a baby for someone? That'd be a win win situation surely, as a couple desperate and unable to have a baby get a chance to be parents and the surrogate wants to help a couple have this chance?
Couldn't do it myself but I know others do.

money is a government-issued resource and we all get a say in how society operates

That's kind of like giving yourself a shiny badge and setting yourself up as some kind of Morality Police.
Where does that line of thinking stop....

"Where does that line of thinking stop...."

It stops where your body intersects with society on the side of your body belonging to you.

@Lumene - that’s what I meant. When a woman can be paid for using her body to make a baby for someone mumsnet seems it immoral. On the topic of prostitution women should be able to do whatever they want with their body.

Deems it sorry, not seems it.

@RosesAndRaindrops - I’m not singling you, or any, mumsnetter our. I mean as a whole. The majority opinion on surrogacy threads is that women should not be paid to carry a baby for others. The majority opinion on prostitution threads is that women shouldn’t be told what to do with her body.

It’s very odd to me. Odder still that it’s on a predominantly female, parenting site and not a male dominated site. You’d think the majority view would be that if either of them were acceptable it would be, surrogacy - fine. Prostitution- not fine.

but money is a government-issued resource and we all get a say in how society operates.

Money is a government-issued medium of exchange that represents underlying, privately held goods for trade.

What a weird argument.

I don’t agree with either but it seems the MN opinion is men who want sex - should be legal for them to pay a woman for it. People want a baby - tough. Very weird.

I don’t think that’s true. There’s a very strong anti-surrogacy sentiment on MN for the same sorts of reasons as are being discussed in this thread.

@ahundredpercentthatbitch - but the majority of people on this thread are of the opinion prostitution should be legalised and women shouldn’t be told what to do with their body. Nothing like the anti-surrogacy sentiment on MN.

It seems like the right to bodily autonomy is a moveable feast on MN. For me it applies across the board. If you want to be a sex worker or a surrogate, crack on. It’s not my body and not my business.

Again, we are focusing criticism on the victims and not the perpetrators.

I won’t judge women for feeling like their choice - maybe their only choice - is prostitution.

I won’t judge women who give their wombs up for rent for whatever reasons - whether altruistic or financial.

I do judge men who buy women for sex. And I do judge people who think they can buy women’s wombs and, by extension, babies. I think they should be prevented from, and punished for, doing so.

I’m not criticising the victims. I was forced into prostitution so I would never judge anyone who is it was a prostitute. I’m just finding it very odd that when concern is expressed for prostitutes and we say men shouldn’t be able to pay for access to a woman’s body we are told to mind our own business was because women can choose what to do with their bodies and any time surrogacy is brought up peoples opinion is that laws should be strict and surrogacy shouldn’t exist because ‘buying someone’s body’ is wrong.

That’s should say I would never judge anyone who is OR was not IT was.

I’m just finding it very odd that when concern is expressed for prostitutes and we say men shouldn’t be able to pay for access to a woman’s body we are told to mind our own business was because women can choose what to do with their bodies and any time surrogacy is brought up peoples opinion is that laws should be strict and surrogacy shouldn’t exist because ‘buying someone’s body’ is wrong.

You’re right. It is odd. Because it’s oxymoronic. There are many parallels between prostitution and surrogacy. In my view men who buy women for sex and people who buy women for reproduction are equally as entitled and exploitative. Their motivations are just different.

I agree with you completely.

but the majority of people on this thread are of the opinion prostitution should be legalised and women shouldn’t be told what to do with their body.

Eh? We must be reading two completely different threads then.

Have a look at the feminism boards for an explanation of the type of conditions and practices surrogacy creates for women. Not to mention a consideration of the rights of the baby.