To ask why I feel sex work is a bit wrong?

[sweatyscruffy]

So I'm fully preparing to get flamed here!
Bf came round last night, I asked her how it was going as her university friends have moved in with her and her dh for a while. Bf's friend was doing webcam work with her dp previously and they were continuing to earn an absolute mint doing it (£30,000 in three months once!) I don't really see anything wrong with it as it's doing what they do anyway with a few cameras filming. The other girl is a medical professional, also part time escort. My bf was telling me about it as if it was the best thing ever. Apparently the agency only takes on clients earning over £50,000, and only contracts girls who know how to talk to and entertain very rich men. It involves a lot of trips to London and Europe, occasionally Dubai. Maybe I sound jealous but the whole thing made me a bit sad. Yes she's a grown woman, yes she knows what she's doing but imagine having to pretend that you find these old men interesting or sexually attractive?
She apparently specifies 40+ men only so she gets the really rich ones so I bet there's a good chance a lot of them are married, not that it's her fault they're choosing to sleep with prostitutes. I try so hard to be ok with it and think of it as feminist but I still feel it's a bit seedy. I'm trying so hard to not judge!

@MorganKitten - you’re not entitled to the use of a woman’s body (or sex, for that matter) , regardless of whether you are disabled or able-bodied. What a disgusting, seedy idea.

morgankitty how many disabled women manage to get by without using prostitutes. Sex is not a right.

I've known two people involved with sex work- one became a coke addict and the other worked as a receptionist in a brothel and was held down by a client and nearly stabbed.
40% of prostitutes suffer from PTSD at some time, It's a dangerous and risky job mentally and physically.
Modern liberal feminism sees it as empowering for women but I agree with the radical feminism view that it is seedy & men exploiting women. This especially as in countries where it has been legalised like Switzerland numbers of men using prostitutes has tripled and they have drive-thru brothels it's so normalised.

how do you figure that one out if she consents, wants to do it

If she genuinely 'would anyway' but chooses to get paid, that's one thing. Unicorn tears rare but whatever.

But do you really think most escorts are sleeping with the men they would want to anyway, just for money? No, they're sleeping with men who either can't get laid without paying, have so much contempt for women they are cheating on their wives, want to do stuff other women won't do, or are misogynists who want power. They buy consent and that shouldn't be for sale.

@Writersblock2 the girl he sees treats him with care and not like the women who he’s asked out and they’ve given him dirty looks and said no because of how he looks.

@FagashJackie i actually read an article about the rise in women using male prostitutes. And know women who have used them. Are they rapists?

@OmniversalsTapdancingTadpole they do go on dates, hence girlfriend experience. It’s a known practice in sex work.

@MrsTerryPratchett women have done the same thing. And he has been rejected by ‘normal’ women because of how he looks and them being judgemental.

I love how everyone is ignoring that women pay for sex too, there’s a rise in male escorts, are these women rapists? Desperate or as awful as the men you’re slating on here?

@FagashJackie i actually read an article about the rise in women using male prostitutes. And know women who have used them. Are they rapists?

Not read that article, but I think that's an interesting point - if a woman uses male prostitutes, is that OK?
I'm fully aware some are probably going to come on now saying yes it's fine course it is as it's a power imbalance.
To me though, women are capable of knowing their own minds too.
Don't get me wrong, it's not something I'd do but I don't profess to speak for all women.

If sex work is just work, then why don't you get paid more as you get more experience?

"Errrm... how do you figure that one out if she consents, wants to do it, like the OP said? If it's consenting, it's not raping at all."

Because if you're relying on someone financially, there is no consent. There is not an equal balance of power.

OP, I used to be one of those 'sex work is fiiiine, it's just a joooob' type people but as I read more and more threads on here, I realised what total shit that was. Read more on the feminist boards, you'll soon change your mind when you apply more critical thought to it.

I did some 'sugar daddy' shit at one point. I felt dirty and disgusting. I had mental health problems at the time and was very vulnerable. I kidded myself that I was exploiting these men when it was absolutely the other way around.

Anyone who thinks prostitution is just another job needs to wake up. If it was such a great job, people with loads of money and opportunities would do it.

"To me though, women are capable of knowing their own minds too."

This isn't about women on a personal level, it's about women on a societal level.

Men as a group exploit women as a group. Therefore women have less power.

I remember when I was the one repeating all these 'but what about women?' 'but what about disabled men?' 'but what about if they actually enjoy it?' 'but it's a choice!' type arguments and getting my arse absolutely handed to me on here. I was definitely angry at the time and thought those horrible feminists weren't listening to me, but the more I thought about it, the more I realised the reality of the situation, not some theoretical bullshit, the more I changed my mind.

Honestly can't believe I used to call myself a feminist while sticking up for men who abuse women in this way.

Also, when the fuck did it start being called 'sex work'? It's prostitution. Stop trying to make it sound benign. I've been there. It's not.

This isn't about women on a personal level, it's about women on a societal level. Men as a group exploit women as a group. Therefore women have less power.

To me that's just lumping everyone in together.
Women, equals abused.
Men, have all the power want a shag so can.

People are different.
What about those in the middle who aren't abused, know their own mind, like their choices..

@LiveInAHidingPlace sex work covers stripping and camwork, not just prostitution.

YANBU at all OP.

Fact is your knowledge of this is the absolute most rare and privileged end of it. I've worked with sex workers injecting heroin into their neck because they don't have veins left and they can't face working without it (she died).

Also this:

And if sex work is work, then any man on unemployment should have no choice but to take a job working as a bottom or risk losing benefits. Sound crazy? That’s because sex work is not work.

My male friend said something quite scary to me the other day. What is weird is on every other topic he is an incredibly nice man, but if I talk about women's rights , his opinion is always that he enjoys men having power over women.

He said to me "who are we going to abuse, of course people are going to abuse the people weaker than themselves. That is why men abuse women. Because they can".

What scared me is we (women) the physically weaker beings, live on a planet where the physically stronger beings abuse us. That is a scary reality. I can't go anywhere else.

What can we do to defend ourselves?

"sex work covers stripping and camwork, not just prostitution."

Let's just call them what they are.

It's not "camwork", it's pornography.

"To me that's just lumping everyone in together."

And sometimes to analyse situations, we have to do that.

Do you think men who use prostitutes think of the women as individuals? Or do you think that, as long as she has a vagina and an anus and a mouth and is vaguely attractive, she'll do?

Cos trust me, the men couldn't care less about your individuality in that situation.

No. I know a very disabled man who uses sex workers as women don’t look twice at him due to his disability. What’s wrong with him sharing a bed with someone who gives him what’s known as a girlfriend experience?

Sure it’s great for him. But she isn’t actually his girlfriend is she, she wouldn’t be doing it for free.

Would you be happy for your daughter/niece to do this job?

Would you be happy to have to take this job if unemployed or else have your benefits taken away?

Or if you are so concerned for this person would you have sex with them so they have a chance of a ‘girlfriend experience’ - so someone else doesn’t have to be the spunk receptacle?

Spunk receptacle
FFS

@Lumene I know a lot of girls who have done or still do a range of sex work. None of my friends have been junkies. And shock horror some are now stay at home mums with kids and husbands...

@LiveInAHidingPlace what about the women who use male escorts?
Do you think women who do burlesque is prostitution? It taking clothes off for money.

morgan

First question has been extensively covered in this thread.

I think burlesque is stripping and therefore a form of prostitution and anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves. Just because it's fat middle class women doing it doesn't change anything.

Err ok Morgan that’s good not sure anyone has suggested your friends would all be junkies though.

Spunk receptacle
FFS

Well yes. Literally for fuck’s sake. That’s rather the point of paying, no?