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Original poster

To ask why I feel sex work is a bit wrong?

327 replies

sweatyscruffy · 15/09/2019 19:57

So I'm fully preparing to get flamed here!
Bf came round last night, I asked her how it was going as her university friends have moved in with her and her dh for a while. Bf's friend was doing webcam work with her dp previously and they were continuing to earn an absolute mint doing it (£30,000 in three months once!) I don't really see anything wrong with it as it's doing what they do anyway with a few cameras filming. The other girl is a medical professional, also part time escort. My bf was telling me about it as if it was the best thing ever. Apparently the agency only takes on clients earning over £50,000, and only contracts girls who know how to talk to and entertain very rich men. It involves a lot of trips to London and Europe, occasionally Dubai. Maybe I sound jealous but the whole thing made me a bit sad. Yes she's a grown woman, yes she knows what she's doing but imagine having to pretend that you find these old men interesting or sexually attractive?
She apparently specifies 40+ men only so she gets the really rich ones so I bet there's a good chance a lot of them are married, not that it's her fault they're choosing to sleep with prostitutes. I try so hard to be ok with it and think of it as feminist but I still feel it's a bit seedy. I'm trying so hard to not judge!

OP posts:
moreofaslummythanyummy · 17/09/2019 14:12

I have always thought I was fine with sex work as long it was the womans choice and not because she felt there were no other options / being forced. That was until someone asked me to imagine my daughter coming home from uni and announcing that she was doing it to pay her fees and earn some money.
It seems I am ok with sexwork as long as it isnt someone I love which really means I dont agree with it at all.
I suspect that is the case for most people.

AsTheWorldTurns · 17/09/2019 14:27

It seems I am ok with sexwork as long as it isnt someone I love which really means I dont agree with it at all.

It's more than OK to have these kinds of standards, it is not hypocrisy. We can't impose our standards for our children on random strangers, obviously.

BanKittenHeels · 17/09/2019 14:38

Sex work is very much a live and let live situation, you're going to have to accept that there are women who want to do sex work and will make no apologies for it, and I'm not sure why they should.

No I don’t have to accept it one bit. Those in the “industry” and surrounding who are shouting about what an amazing business idea it is to rent out your holes and how they make their own choices and it is relatively risk free are causing women like me to have a blind eye turned. Because surely I must be some executive business woman who is making these decisions for myself.

And when the high end escorts turn down a punter, who do you think has the anger taken out on them in an alley with a fist full of their hair pulled out?

AsTheWorldTurns · 17/09/2019 15:10

No I don’t have to accept it one bit.

OK, but your not accepting it will come to nothing.

And when the high end escorts turn down a punter, who do you think has the anger taken out on them in an alley with a fist full of their hair pulled out?

There should be no alley, and there wouldn't if it were completely legalised and properly regulated.

GlasshouseStoneThrower · 17/09/2019 15:20

It seems I am ok with sexwork as long as it isnt someone I love which really means I dont agree with it at all.

I don't think this is necessarily contradictory.

I would be pretty upset and worried if a kid of mine wanted to join the military, but I don't expect others to feel the same. In fact there are lots of jobs that would make me feel disappointed / disgusted / stressed / anxious about if a loved one did them, and that doesn't mean those jobs should be outlawed or that I expect other people to feel the same way as me.

And when the high end escorts turn down a punter, who do you think has the anger taken out on them in an alley with a fist full of their hair pulled out?*

Do you think full criminalisation is going to stop desperate girls from turning to prostitution? Do you think the girls getting beaten up and raped in alleys would be safe if high end escorts didn't exist? I think that's really naive.

BanKittenHeels · 17/09/2019 15:54

No I don’t think they would suddenly safer, but I certainly think more people would fight for the rights of people like me if they weren’t fed the “it’s glamorous and empowering” line over and over. “Sex work is work” is a nonsense along the lines of “transwomen are women”. It’s a catch-all “don’t you dare challenge this line” and is usually only legitimised by getting opinions from middle class women.

GlasshouseStoneThrower · 17/09/2019 16:05

I don't think it's as stark as you're saying. I'm not in favour of decriminalisation because I think sex work is glamorous and empowering (although I accept that for some sex workers it may be). I'm in favour of decriminalisation because I firmly believe that evidence shows it will make sex workers safer.

I also agree that 'Sex work is work' can be an unhelpful catchphrase, because it glosses over how many women are trafficked or unwilling sex workers, and it ignores the reality that many sex workers have experienced violence, abuse, neglect and addiction. I do, however, think that if sex work was fully decriminalised and regulated in a way that enabled sex workers to have total control over their work without facing the stigma they currently do, they would be significantly safer.

ReanimatedSGB · 17/09/2019 16:05

Do you blame the likes of Jamie Oliver for the fact that people from poor or dangerous countries end up working for no wages in the catering industry and sleeping eight to a room? Does the plight of modern-day slaves trafficked into catering, or agriculture, or construction work, matter less because i's got nothing to do with sex? Do you berate hop-pickers, kitchen porters or jobbing builders who quite like their jobs as contributing to the exploitation of those doing the same work for less money, under more dangerous conditions?

I have known people choose sex work because they feel that not only will it bring in more money than stacking shelves or scrubbing floors but it will enable them to choose their own hours and not be answerable to an employer. There are a wide range of experiences among sex workers, and one person's lived experience and perception of that experience is as valid as another's.

What we all want (hopefully) is for sex workers to escape coercion and violence, and to have other options available to them if they want to move on from sex work. What isn't helping is the current system which puts them at the mercy of a state with a stigmatizing, punitive attitude towards poverty as well as towards sex work. Another reason why we need to introduce universal basic income, in fact.

AsTheWorldTurns · 17/09/2019 16:11

No I don’t think they would suddenly safer, but I certainly think more people would fight for the rights of people like me if they weren’t fed the “it’s glamorous and empowering” line over and over.

You're becoming tedious.

You are not the only person who cares about the rights of vulnerable people.

OneToughMudderFudder · 17/09/2019 16:21

People like your friends disgust me OP.

They are perpetrating the notion that women are 'things' that can be bought, that they're disposable and are reduced to objects for the sexual gratification of men.

There are women who have no choice but to sell their bodies through abuse, addiction, MH issues. Then there are imbeciles like your friends..........

BanKittenHeels · 17/09/2019 16:22

I’m sorry my experience of prostitution is too tedious for you, how difficult that must be.

GlasshouseStoneThrower · 17/09/2019 16:35

There are women who have no choice but to sell their bodies

They are not selling their bodies. This attitude is incredibly harmful to sex workers (and women generally). Sex workers own their bodies, and nothing they choose to do with them affects their rights of ownership over their bodies.

Deadringer · 17/09/2019 16:39

It's very shiney shit but it's still shit.

ReanimatedSGB · 17/09/2019 19:27

@BanKittenHeels - if you are currently working in the sex industry and want to stop, what support do you need? I know of organisations in Scotland and Leeds who may be able to help you.

NoTheresa · 17/09/2019 20:23

There are women who have no choice but to sell their bodies...

No choice? Whaaaat? There are always choices which are decidedly less grim.

BanKittenHeels · 17/09/2019 20:48

ReanimatedSGB
I am thankfully very far removed from it. This was when I was a teenager. I am now fortunate enough to work in a career I love and can now help women in this position daily whilst knowing how they feel.

Propertyofhood · 17/09/2019 20:55

After watching that Mega Brothel documentary about the decriminalisation of prostitution in Germany there is no fucking way I would want that to happen in this country.

It was grim.

Propertyofhood · 17/09/2019 20:58

They are not selling their bodies. This attitude is incredibly harmful to sex workers (and women generally). Sex workers own their bodies, and nothing they choose to do with them affects their rights of ownership over their bodies.

Men are buying their bodies though.

I still don't get why, if sex work is so empowering and women love doing it, loads of men aren't doing it as well? Or why is not to 'go to career' for men who are desperate for cash?

Propertyofhood · 17/09/2019 21:02

When we all trot out 'sex work is work' we are all thinking of women aren't, not men?

If sex work were a truly free choice them women and men would be doing it in equal measure wouldn't they?

moreofaslummythanyummy · 17/09/2019 21:10

I would be pretty upset and worried if a kid of mine wanted to join the military, but I don't expect others to feel the same. In fact there are lots of jobs that would make me feel disappointed / disgusted / stressed / anxious about if a loved one did them, and that doesn't mean those jobs should be outlawed or that I expect other people to feel the same way as me.

That is a bloody good point about joining the military! Urgh such a tricky subject which I do a lot of back and forth with.

CSIblonde · 17/09/2019 21:20

As I said in a pp its tricky as the majority are coerced, addicts, trafficked. But... When temping I have met a few mature students who do part time sex work & see it as easy 'top up' income. Also, if you're doing domination only, because that's your 'thing' anyway , its far more lucrative & there's no sex, so is that going to mentally impact you the same way as sex work which is just sex & not your own preference ?

GlasshouseStoneThrower · 17/09/2019 21:31

Men are buying their bodies though.

No, they aren't. Men have no rights over the bodies of sex workers. You are promoting an incredibly harmful narrative which actively contributes to the dehumanisation and abuse of sex workers when you say this.

Why do you think sex workers stop having ownership over their bodies when they are paid for sex? It's really important not to buy into this damaging narrative that sex workers are objects to be bought and sold. They have the exact same rights over their bodies that you do, and nothing they do with their bodies affects their ownership over them.

I still don't get why, if sex work is so empowering and women love doing it, loads of men aren't doing it as well? Or why is not to 'go to career' for men who are desperate for cash?

I don't think sex work is automatically empowering or something that women love. That may be true of some, but it's clearly not true of all. I'm not in favour of decriminalisation because I think sex work is a fun, glamorous, sexy, lucrative career choice. I'm in favour of decriminalisation because I believe it's the best way to protect and empower sex workers.

sillage · 17/09/2019 21:50

"Men have no rights over the bodies of sex workers."

And yet men keep on bashing, burning, slashing, punching, raping and murdering prostituted women regardless. It's almost like men who pay for sex can't hear you telling a parent-centered forum how much prostitutes own their own bodies no matter what.

"It's really important not to buy into this damaging narrative that sex workers are objects to be bought and sold."

It isn't some theoretical "narrative' that mums can will into being, it's the physical reality of rape-centered men choosing to hurt women in specifically sexually abusive ways for the feel-good power trip. If you insist on finding a 'narrative' in this form of socially tolerated rape then the punters credo "Fuck Bitches" is the thesis you're looking for.

oabiti · 17/09/2019 22:06

Just because she is rich/intelligent, doesn't make it any less seedy. If anything, it makes it more so, because she's not worrying when her kids will next get fed because her UC has fucked up.

Extreme example (I hope), but you know what I'm saying..

Money equals power, not morals.

Propertyofhood · 17/09/2019 22:16

No, they aren't. Men have no rights over the bodies of sex workers. You are promoting an incredibly harmful narrative which actively contributes to the dehumanisation and abuse of sex workers when you say this.

It doesn't really matter what I 'say' does it? When a man pays for sex he believes he has rights over the body of the woman he pays. He believes she is an object to be brought. That's what matters. Because that is how women in prostitution end up injured, murdered, dehumanised.

I can say 'men don't have rights over the bodies of sex workers' until the cows come home. It doesn't matter a shite. Men aren't going to care are they? Because men believe they own the women they pay (they wouldn't pay women for sex otherwise would they?) The very act of paying a woman for sex means that they believe they have bought her and can therefore do whatever they want to her. And that is what is dehumanising.

I'm in favour of decriminalisation because I believe it's the best way to protect and empower sex workers.

Obviously it was an edited programme, but when I watched the 'Mega Brothel' documentary, none of the women seemed 'empowered'. None of them.

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