Abusers/ rapists. Do you knowingly associate with them?

[Thegullfromhull]

This is the question .
Following on from Geoffrey Boycott’s knighthood (which personally I’m appalled at), and thinking about other incidences in the public eye of influential people siding with perpetrators of violence/sexual violence , I’m interested to hear how other people deal with this in normal life.
Would you be friends with somebody convicted of rape? How about accused?
How about violence ? Domestic violence? Could you be friends with a man who had abused his partner? Could you date a man who had been accused of any of these things?
How about business? Would you do business with a man accused of any of the above if there was an alternative ? How about if it saved you plenty of money? Would you use his services as an accountant/ plumber/ gardener if he offered you 50% discount? 75% ?
Where do you draw your personal line in these matters?

I was sexually abused as a child. I would not, could not, be around someone who I knew was an abuser or rapist. I would distance myself from anyone accused.

I have male relatives who are convicted of violent offences, but these are of the pub brawl variety rather than DV. I still speak to them at family events. I am not aware of any men among my family or friends who have DV history, but I think often these things are covered up. I would like to think I wouldn't associate with them.

I'm struggling with what one poster said, that all rape victims should be believed. They should all be heard and they should be believed to an extent but surely there are liars out there? Women/Men who are being vindictive and trying for whatever reason to ruin someone's life too?
Back to the original questions, I cannot honestly say that I wouldn't be friends with someone accused of rape, I mean, if they were accused by someone who has been known to accuse before then obviously I'm going to have doubts, or say it was my husband or son. Of course I'd stand by my husband as I know what type of man he is, sane with my son, and for arguments sake just say my son grew up to be a complete arse hole you can't just switch off maternal feelings? Well, I don't think I could.
DV= ummm, not sure on this one, who's doing what and to whom? Once again it really is down to circumstance, same with fighting etc

I would be friends with someone accused of something like that if I believed that they were innocent.

On what basis would you assume their innocence?
Because they were nice to you? Because they gave you free stuff? They scrape your car in the winter?

It's very difficult if you have read any of the stats on rape, sexual/physical abuse, to actually not be friends with a man who has carried out these acts. The chances are we all are already, unless you limit your friends to women only.

Sobering stuff.

I wouldn't associate with them and wouldn't use their business services. I have never knowingly met anyone accused of dv or any sex offense.

Part of my job is to deal with and help people who are violent to women. It's a part of my job I struggle with especially when I know from their attitude that they are guilty as hell

But I do have the satisfaction of taking lots of money from them for the privilege and justice normally prevails.

I'm disgusted by celebrities like Sean Bean, Michael Fassbnder etc who have a history of dv but just get away with it

Thegullfromhull

Generally I agree with you but I am friends with someone that was accused of rape.

I know that he is innocent because on the night and at the time the rape was supposed to happen he was out with a group of 5 of us in a different town nearly 2 hours away from where the rape was supposed to have taken place. (FYI, there is also cctv, hotel sign ins etc.)

In RL I don't tell people because they have the same response that you are having now. Including my favourite "Its the boys club protecting their mate"

Me too @MissLadyM

Just googled Michael Fassbender and domestic violence. Blimey. What a savage. My x was very physically aggressive to me behind closed doors but never broke my nose or put a hand on me IN PUBLIC which would make you wonder how michael fassbender behaves behind closed doors.

I think what partly influenced me to write the thread were the news articles yesterday that domestic violence deaths were at a 5 year high in the UK Whilst reading the sidebar that Geoffrey Boycott ‘doesn’t give a toss’.
And Teresa May had vowed to take a hard line against perpetrators of domestic violence!
That reflects what I’ve seen in the real world.
It’s interesting to read opinions on here but I fear they’re unrepresentative of the nation

I think people are afraid to be seen to CARE. It's feminist to care. Aggressive, angry to care.

I share things about women's ai
d from time to time. Not. A. Like. Nada.

Share a picture of a dogs' rescue home and there will be 30 likes and 15 comments, ''omg people are awful''

I used to get depressed when I was confronted with the evidence that seemingly my friends care not a jot about women but care about people buying their puppies from breeders when there are rescue centres. (for example). People will speak out and admit they care about dogs.

This also depresses me. To tears, in fact.

I also agree that people like to confuse feminism or even simply integrity with aggression.
It seems that for some, a woman passionately defending her views on women’s rights is seen as aggressive, whereas those same people are the first to minimise and excuse violence and real aggression from men.

@ElizabethMountbatten that’s awful. Do you believe it now?

I also agree that people like to confuse feminism or even simply integrity with aggression.

That's because saying no to men is seen as an aggression.(which then by mental gymnastics means it justifies the real aggression we receive)

I would not associate with anyone convicted of rape.

The men in my life I wouldn’t think capable of a heinous crime haven’t necessarily ‘done’ anything to make me think that, but they are men I trust and believe to be largely good people. My DH for example - I wouldn’t have let him raise my DD from a previous relationship of have had further children with him if I thought he was at all violent or capable of rape. I grew up in an abusive household and I have been a victim of sexual assault, including rape. If he was accused of such a crime with no substantial evidence I would find it hard to believe the victim. I also think ‘innocent unless proven guilty’ is a reasonable stance to take and it’s not wrong to side with the accused if there’s no evidence to suggest the accusations are true.

I also recognise that in some crimes the lines are blurred and sometimes both versions of events can be true - a victim can feel they didn’t give consent to something where the accused might think that actually the victim was consenting. I can see how this is the case with my own rapist and part of the reason I didn’t follow through with giving evidence after initially reporting it was i believed he probably didn’t realise what he’d done was wrong, as he coerced me/ ignored me saying no until I eventually just gave in and let it happen. I guess in his mind that was me consenting. I don’t believe he is a monster or an evil person or that he saw what he was doing as rape even though I felt violated and felt in my mind that it was happening against my will. I didn’t say yes but I stopped saying no so it wasn’t explicit to him. I wouldn’t expect people to stop associating with him because of what he did. I don’t think it is that black and white. I think you have to take each case individually and not always assume that if one side is right the other must be wrong.

But I think what I meant with my line of questioning was more ‘would you use their services if you didn’t have to’ , eg walking an extra mile in the rain to get your daily coffee because you know the more local vendor is verbally abusive to his staff. Or refusing to get a cab with a particular firm because the owner was convicted of rape. Even if it meant you had to pay twice as much to get home. And so on.

Good grief, no! I stopped using my local convenience store for 3 years, after one of the owners made a racist comment about another customer. It meant I had to walk a mile each way (or drive) to the next nearest shop, but I never set foot in there again until after it had changed hands. I also stopped using a pub that we regularly went to when I found out that the manager used to grope his female staff.

@MyNewBearTotoro

he coerced me/ ignored me saying no until I eventually just gave in.

On those facts I would not associate with your rapist. Unless he is deaf he heard you say no yet he continued. That is the very definition of rape and there is no ambiguity there.

The innocent unless proven guilty stance works well for other types of crime but I believe it's skewed in favour of perpetrators due to the nature of DV/sexual assault. When these things happen there are often only two people there so it would be easier to defend the charges than successfully prosecute them.

Sadly it sometimes takes multiple unrelated victims telling the same story about the same man before they are taken seriously.

Lots of devastating experiences on this thread. Just catching up now
Seems many people don’t like to rock the boat in real life , even to support those they love.

@MyNewBearTotoro and others. I wonder though, and I asked someone else I think ...
What evidence do you need?
I mean if someone is accused of domestic abuse over a period of time, you’re probably not going to get much evidence. Domestic abuse/ violence is extremely secretive in its nature. Few women report for fear of social services involvement (still a huge stigma). So if the only evidence you have is the woman that left and tells you in confidence the reason, do you take the stance of innocent until proven guilty still?
Because if this is a friend of yours or a sister or colleague, then continuing to socialize with her abuser gives him a window in to her world from where he can continue to control and abuse. And its in the most basic small talk with an abuser that you can inadvertently reveal info the victim would not want him to know, no matter how clever you think you are in conversation.
Also you’re showing the world that you do not believe the accusations. This can be particularly hurtful to the victim, not to mention isolating?