Abusers/ rapists. Do you knowingly associate with them?

[Thegullfromhull]

This is the question .
Following on from Geoffrey Boycott’s knighthood (which personally I’m appalled at), and thinking about other incidences in the public eye of influential people siding with perpetrators of violence/sexual violence , I’m interested to hear how other people deal with this in normal life.
Would you be friends with somebody convicted of rape? How about accused?
How about violence ? Domestic violence? Could you be friends with a man who had abused his partner? Could you date a man who had been accused of any of these things?
How about business? Would you do business with a man accused of any of the above if there was an alternative ? How about if it saved you plenty of money? Would you use his services as an accountant/ plumber/ gardener if he offered you 50% discount? 75% ?
Where do you draw your personal line in these matters?

Yes that’s true.
I haven’t posted on the other thread yet

No I wouldnt..
When DPs friend was 17/18 he went to court for rape, he denied it profusely. After the court case he walked into the flat and said "well I got away with it boys" whilst laughing. He was promptly told to get the fuck out and none of them spoke to him again.

My god @mumsnet please delete my thread.
This is a local town for local people and namechanges are not allowed.
Fuck me I wish I was a journalist. I’m sat here with a whole day to twiddle my thumbs when I could be plagiarising women’s testimonials of abuse from the internet and getting paid for it

I don’t want to talk to them, listen to their music or watch them on tv.

This is interesting - what sort of line do you draw in this regard? You might say: OK, I never watch Sean Connery films, or I never watch anything with Sean Penn in it, and I can't listen to Eminem any more, and I'd certainly never watch Michael Fassbender in a film, or Johnny Depp, and no more David Boreanaz TV shows for me but...would you watch a film directed by Woody Allen or Roman Polanski? Have you watched any Miramax films since the Weinstein scandal broke?

Just a reminder for the troll hunters by the way @Juells and @. some victims of abuse don’t have a choice to but to name change with every post. This is the unfortunate legacy of living a life where even years after your escape from abuse. Your life is forever scrutinized and you are wide open to social media stalking, to every tiny thing you say being analyzed.
So the choice is the say
“I’m a victim of rape and abuse so I’ve namechanged so that my perpetrator doesn’t stalk me”
Or you just make up some shit and hope you’re still allowed to have a fucking discussion on the internet.

That was for @juells and @WorraLiberty btw.

NC for this comment - my husbands uncle is a convicted child sex offender. He went to prison for 12 months or so and is out now. The offenses are historical and my DH and his family are convinced they were made up and malicious to get compensation and that's it.

His uncle was at our wedding. This was before all the accusations came out. I don't know him well enough to know if it is true or not but he will never be around my daughter and I've told my DH that.

@ratherbeanon I personally think this would make me dramatically change my opinion of my husband if he took that kind of stance. Did you argue about it?

If a woman says she was raped by your friend, but decides not to take it further... what do you do? If you think he’s a nice guy you just ignore it?
Or you ask her to ‘prove it’ ?😐

I can only speak for myself, and I speak as a person who has been raped, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to believe a friend if there is no evidence against him.

@owlbethere
If they were in the same room at the same time, nobody else there, and she says it happens and he says not... but she doesn’t want to relive her trauma by taking it to court because she knows there’s probably insufficient evidence...
And she’s probably right.
Would you distance yourself rom your friend any?

I think we are all in some ways friends with a man who has committed sexual assault/rape.
Because so few men are actually brought to justice, let alone convicted, despite the huge number if women who are raped (just look at the threads in here!), there are actually many men like this around and we dont know about it.
Somehow it doesn’t stop us being friends with them because they are not JUST an awful person who thinks it’s ok to force themselves onto a woman (or a man for that matter). There are other sides of them that are quite nice.

A distant relative of mine has been accused of historical child sexual abuse.

I believe her.

It’s never gone to the police or anything.

He doesn’t know that I know but I have kept my distance from him and wouldn’t invite him to any family events.

I did say hello to him at a funeral but didn’t engage in conversation.

I actually feel guilty? that I haven’t confronted him/ reported the matter to police/ social services. But I know they wouldn’t do anything as there’s no evidence.

If I knew he was living with a child I’d report that.

But @myriade more specifically here I’m referring to accusations /past convictions .
I’m sure you’re right that there are many many more cases where we have no idea.

And there is the issue of ‘innocent until prove guilty’.
I think many men get away with it because they haven’t been proven guilty so they have to be innocent and therefore the woman is a liar.
Seeing the dry low conviction rate, there must a heel of lot of women who are liars and very few men who ever rape.
Except that we know this isn’t the truth. Many women are raped and very few men are ever convinced for it.

So from that it’s easy to take the stance that men should prove their innocence re rape rather than having to prove they are guilty.

In that case, what happens to the basic principle of a fair society then? To the ‘innocent until proven guilty’?

And what do you do when you are around men you dint really know or you know very well. Do you assume they might be rapists on hearsay? Do you assume that you know them so well it’s not possible?
Tbh I dint think it’s possible to have one rule for everyone.

But personally I would never take a man’s word that they havent raped a woman if they were charged because so many of them don’t even realise they have raped before (or refuse to acknowledge it).
See the having sex whilst the woman is sleeping or is passed out with alcohol etc....Few people actually know what consent is.

Xpost
The point I am making @Thegullfromhull is that rapists also have their good sides and can be very nice people in other areas. Hence when we don’t know about it, we are quite happy to be friends with them.
Aka they are not JUST a monster iyswim.

When you say someone who has abused their partner do you mean physical abuse only?

I struggle to be friends with any kind of abuser though there are many abusers of varying degrees in my family I have to be civil to.

Even if it's a degrading comment here or there, swearing at their partner, embarrassing them in public, stuff people generally forgive and forget about I find it hard to let go.

My tolerance level is very low when it comes to disrespectful behaviour. I think maybe if more people were less tolerant of bad behaviour abusers would feel less enabled to abuse?

I agree @Lentilbug . Totally.
Like if I went to see an uncle, and then he said to his wife
“Get off the sofa you big fat cunt” or similar..
I’d not want anything to do with him. Ever again.

That’s an extreme obviously!

But I think generally perpetrators of abuse get quite comfy within a family or community of people who happily deny or excuse their behaviour. It’s easy to excuse things if we have a romantic notion of their character. Like he’s a loveable rogue , a boy of a bad boy, a ladies man ?! And so on

My ex had a friend who was accused of rape twice, by different women and a huge distance between them. There apparently wasn’t enough evidence to convict him. He’s a vile man with no respect for women and I personally believe he absolutely did it. No smoke without fire and two very similar stories from different women is too much to be coincidental. My ex would say he didn’t do it because there was no evidence but no chance. Those poor women didn’t get justice. When my ex told him I didn’t want him going away for a weekend with him because of it all going to court (at the time) and I didn’t want him involved with a rapist, the man sent me a message threatening my life. He recently joked about it to a group of friends and one of them messaged me to tell me so I have the proof should I ever need it. My ex still sees him.
I wouldn’t want to be near anyone who was even accused. Just because they get let off, it doesn’t mean they didn’t do it. Unfortunately it is hard to prove when a woman has been assaulted and so many don’t speak up in fear of being called liars and their attacker walking free.

@thegullfromhull I think it’s hard to say because it would depend on the circumstances and my gut instinct. I would take into account any evidence there was, and also bare in mind that it’s rare for woman to lie. But not unheard of.

I have (had?) a friend who's brother was convicted of CP. She still allows him to babysit her DC. I've distanced myself. My DC can't, and won't, see him as a safe person, and I have to keep them safe, first and foremost. Some may say that's extreme, but no, neither me, or my DC knowingly associate with sex offenders, however much in the periphery they may be.

I think knowing what we know about convictions for rape in this country, anyone who is convinced a twice accused rapist is innocent because of lack of evidence, is pretty uneducated. Good job he’s your ex sleepyhead , sounds like his morals are on the floor.

@Jeremybearimybaby your friend is mad.
If he was convicted surely this is a social services concern?

My ex is abusive and has done all sorts of nasty things since we separated. Some of those things in front of other people.

Those other people are still friends with him and it really bothers me that they stand by his side.

I couldn't be friends with anyone that had done anything like that.