Abusers/ rapists. Do you knowingly associate with them?

[Thegullfromhull]

This is the question .
Following on from Geoffrey Boycott’s knighthood (which personally I’m appalled at), and thinking about other incidences in the public eye of influential people siding with perpetrators of violence/sexual violence , I’m interested to hear how other people deal with this in normal life.
Would you be friends with somebody convicted of rape? How about accused?
How about violence ? Domestic violence? Could you be friends with a man who had abused his partner? Could you date a man who had been accused of any of these things?
How about business? Would you do business with a man accused of any of the above if there was an alternative ? How about if it saved you plenty of money? Would you use his services as an accountant/ plumber/ gardener if he offered you 50% discount? 75% ?
Where do you draw your personal line in these matters?

Which presumably makes me a massive hypocrite.

Basically, yes.

You sat objectively through those court proceedings, did you?

An acquittal isn't a clearing of a person's name. Just means the law can't be used to punish them for anything.

@Superlooper that must be very reassuring for your staff to have a boss that doesn’t take any shit in that regard. I salute you 👍

I honestly don't know. We all mix with people who may have terrible back stories, if they aren't famous and don't tell us we probably wouldn't guess. If I did find out something I would be on my guard and avoid being too involved.

When I was young, many years ago, I was quite naive and gullible and if a person had poured out their heart to me, saying they'd been wrongly accused or convicted I'd have probably believed them. I was a poor judge of character, improved as I got older.

SachaStark, you're not a hypocrite, you're a human being. It must be terribly hard to find out awful things about someone you genuinely like, very difficult to believe. I expect I'd be the same.

The vast majority of rapists will never be convicted of anything. They're still rapists, though.

Yes, I am a hypocrite. That is clear to see.

I didn’t describe myself as sitting objectively through the court proceedings at all. I said I sat there. I doubt very much that I was objective in my mind as I sat there. As I said, it was a long time ago, and a very strange, muddled set of memories now.

And yes, that is correct, the law in the UK is such that he was not “found guilty”, rather that there was no evidence to convict. As is the situation with most rape cases, very sadly for those victims.

It’s much harder to believe someone is capable of something terrible if you know the person already and have decided they’re a good person.

It takes a lot doesn’t it, to confront your own belief system? Because then you have to face the realisation that you may have to question everything else in your whole life.
Then perhaps it’s just easier to convince yourself you’re a good judge of character, and the bad things you’ve heard can not be true. Because the alternative is inspecting every facet of your life to see if you made any more errors of judgement.

Would you be friends with somebody convicted of rape? Never in a million years.

How about accused? Unless there was cast iron evidence (DNA confirming mistaken identity, cast iron alibi, woman admitting she lied etc) that they didn’t do it then no, I don’t think I could. I don’t believe false rape allegations are common. I believe that conviction rates are horrifically inadequate. I don’t believe that ‘Not Guilty’ or not prosecuted means innocent.

How about violence? Depends entirely on the circumstances. If we’re talking self defence, then yes. If we’re talking anyone who enjoys fighting or who has attacked someone without extreme provocation, then no.

Domestic violence? Never.

Could you be friends with a man who had abused his partner? Never.

Could you date a man who had been accused of any of these things? Never.

How about business? Would you do business with a man accused of any of the above if there was an alternative ? How about if it saved you plenty of money? Would you use his services as an accountant/ plumber/gardener if he offered you 50% discount? 75%? He could offer to pay me and I still wouldn’t knowingly give him my business.

Where do you draw your personal line in these matters? I’m very black and white where this is concerned. I don’t want anything to do with these people. I don’t care if they’ve paid their debt to society, if they’re sorry or if they did it once twenty years ago and have never done it since. I’m quite sure that I’ve unknowingly socialised or been friendly with some awful people who just have never been caught. However, if I know about it, I can’t just pretend it’s ok when I don’t believe it is. I don’t want to talk to them, listen to their music or watch them on tv.

@Sn0tnose I feel more like this every day.
And yes, listen to their music, watch them on telly?
I don’t want to. I want to make my voice heard in this respect by refusing.

Well, if you have the self awareness to recognise you have no objectivity, perhaps you shouldn't state you sat through the entirety of the proceedings as if it somehow lends credibility to your self-interested belief he's not a rapist. It looks disingenuous.

A huge part of the reason it's so difficult to hold rapists and abusers to account is because of people who cry "oh no, not my friend" and protect them. That's when believing the victim actually counts - when it's happening in your life with people you know.

No i wouldnt

@eladen ....Well said.... !!!!
....A huge part of the reason it's so difficult to hold rapists and abusers to account is because of people who cry "oh no, not my friend" and protect them.

And WTH is it with some women that they are STILL so willing to put their friendship with a bloke first no matter the devastation to another women. I mean rape for Godsake!!! Disgusting!!!

People are not simple creatures who are ‘bad’ or ‘good’. People who are decent do bad things.
It’s an impossible question to answer truthfully because while my brain says ‘no of course not’ when it’s your brother or your best friend or whatever it’s not always that simple.
My friend stood by the man who assaulted me, and I get it, he’s her brother, she loves him and most of the time he comes across as a lovely bloke. But he also has a violent side. He’s serving 8 years and she doesn’t miss a visit. She no longer talks to me.

@eladen she was ASKED if she went to the trial.. she was just answering a question.

I would never knowingly associate with rapist or work with them in any way.
In my previous working life, I did once have a opportunity to work with man whose past was not publicly known but in our circles everyone knew(the victims did not want to make formal complaints due to being new in their roles and concern about future employment-which is what i guess the pig was counting on)
I denied his company a very lucrative contract and slept well that night!

My friend's husband did time in prison for rape. She stuck by him. I don't associate with in general but am polite to him when we are together. I find him sleazy, especially when he's had a drink.

You’ll never have people admit that they do on here but obviously lots and lots of people do because otherwise all rapists and abusers would be sad loners with no friends and no jobs.

I knew a man who beat his mum up because she wouldn’t give him any more money for drugs. She was in her 70s. He went to prison, when he came out most people still spoke to him as normal.

I also know a man who went to prison for taking photos of himself assaulting sleeping women. He has fewer friends than before, but he still drinks in the same pubs and is still spoken to by most.

I couldn’t tell you how many men I know who have beaten their wives and girlfriends. It’s viewed with a ‘well he probably shouldn’t do that’ sort of attitude.

The line is drawn at abusing children, a chef in my local pub with was convicted of possessing indecent images of children and no one speaks to him any more and he’s pretty much unemployable in our local area.

@kungfupanda67 yes, in my experience this is absolutely true.
I’m generally surprised at people.
Especially now. It seems people are very good at standing up for what they believe in online, on social media etc but I have not generally seen this happen in real life?

Generally no, I wouldn’t choose to associate with somebody who was accused of rape or violence towards another. I also think that women should be believed when they make accusations. But I also have some men in my life I believe could never be capable of such a crime and if they were accused I would find it hard to believe the victim without substantial evidence.

Then of course there are my children who I love unconditionally. How many mothers here would turn away their sons if they were accused or even convicted? I don’t think I would, wrong as some here might think that is.

In my opinion everyone should have a friend. Everyone should have one person supporting them and just being on their side, makes for a nasty, nasty world without that.

Not saying I would necessarily stand by someone who had done something horrific, but I see why people do

But then how much ‘evidence’ do you need.
It is right or ethical that a woman has to keep going over her trauma before she is believed?
If a woman says she was raped by your friend, but decides not to take it further... what do you do? If you think he’s a nice guy you just ignore it?
Or you ask her to ‘prove it’ ?

@MyNewBearTotoro
What made those men in your life so unlikely to do anything wrong , in your opinion?

YABU to start a thread in AIBU without asking an AIBU question.

Jeez how do I move the thread for people like @LynetteScavo who can’t cope ?