Abusers/ rapists. Do you knowingly associate with them?

[Thegullfromhull]

This is the question .
Following on from Geoffrey Boycott’s knighthood (which personally I’m appalled at), and thinking about other incidences in the public eye of influential people siding with perpetrators of violence/sexual violence , I’m interested to hear how other people deal with this in normal life.
Would you be friends with somebody convicted of rape? How about accused?
How about violence ? Domestic violence? Could you be friends with a man who had abused his partner? Could you date a man who had been accused of any of these things?
How about business? Would you do business with a man accused of any of the above if there was an alternative ? How about if it saved you plenty of money? Would you use his services as an accountant/ plumber/ gardener if he offered you 50% discount? 75% ?
Where do you draw your personal line in these matters?

I know two men that have been accused,both good friends.

The first one was quickly cleared with cctv and other evidence. Think the rape allegedly happened in London at 11pm ,but hotel staff in Leeds have him checking in at 8 pm. We're still loosely in touch(moved countries,jobs,families etc)

The second was trickier and it went to trial. It was a convoluted case and while the history of the victim made it unlikely,I distanced myself from the accused until we stopped all contact. I couldn't be sure either way if it happened or not. The attitude of the judge did seriously bug me though. According to him "you can't have sex Monday and Tuesday ,be raped Thursday and have sex again Saturday. It's either all rape or all sex."

@stocktakefucks 😱
That is unbelievable (the judge)
And infuriating.

@Racmactac why do you think it is?
Is there some incentive , financial or otherwise for people to be such wankers? I mean is your ex giving out freebies to people who with will be his friend , or what?!
Never fails to blow my mind when people behave in this way.
That they’ve WITNESSED it aswell!!! With their own eyes!!!!

Never fails to blow my mind when people behave in this way.

Sorry I know this wasn't aimed at me,but in my eyes there are 3 main reasons (amongst many others):

1. Rape/abuse happens to someone else . Rapists/abusers are someone else (insert whatever stereotype) not my friend,son,father etc.

1. For some men it's because deep down they agree and condone the behaviour, they've either done it themselves,or wish they would. Women are lower class and showing who's boss.

1. For some women it's internalised mysoginy, "I'm special/he'd never do that to me/he's always lovely to me" , the misplaced sense of self preservation that that particular woman did something wrong and as long as I don't do it I'm safe. It can be either or a mix of all of those.

Yes @StockTakeFucks very true.
Sad but true

OP I'll go a bit further and say that I struggle to associate with people who minimise abuse, make excuses for, deflect attention from or otherwise protect abusers. Despite the public awareness campaigns people still behave as though abuse happens somewhere far away from them and refuse to acknowledge their part in it.

They would rather stay ignorant than consider the jolly kind man they know as an abuser. I suspect it would be deeply distressing to them because it means their judgement is skewed and they are not as insulated as they believed. No one likes to be wrong about someone they let into their lives.

What it boils down to is their psychological comfort is more important than the well-being of victims. That's why victims are marginalised - they have upset the status quo.

It is a sad and cowardly reaction. In my eyes people like that are as bad as the abuser. I highly doubt abusers would abuse if they didn't have people willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

On the subject of Boycott, please consider signing and sharing this.

chng.it/J8WkvLkdYX

My best friend's husbands abuses her, physically and verbally, and controls every aspect of her life. I act civil with him at christenings and birthdays etc for her kids (dont allow him to come to any for my kids obviously). I absolutely despise him and have tried and continue to try every thing ti help her escape from him, but if I cause a scene or refuse to be in a room with him entirely I risk losing her friendship and leaving her even more isolated. Its incredibly hard to be polite to him, hes so so charming and friendly as well. Makes me sick.

Sn0tnose answered exactly how I would.

The only added bit was that, if I knew someone was friends with someone who was a rapist, abuser or domestic abuser. I would not be friends with them. If they can be friends with such a person then I can't trust them.

Nope, I’d cut them dead for any of that. I’ve done it before and I’d do it again.

@Thegullfromhull I don't know.

He likes to play the victim and he tells lots of lies. I can only think that they believe his version that I am the bitch I cheated on him. Stealing all his money and a psycho.

Even though they have seen him explode in the pub at my friends, rant at me, talk about me constantly. Say vile things about me on fb, there is an injunction against him.

Yet I say nothing in response, keep my head down, don't talk about him except to close friends, don't engage with any of it.

I don't get it.

My dh was charged with assault ,I was there ,so can categorically say that what he was accused of didn't happen the person he was supposed to.have assaulted had a long history of accusing people of stuff when things didn't go there way ,i t ddnt actually go to trial and was resolved just prior to trial ,didn't stop people believing it happened though .

Not knowingly.

But I’ve never been in the position to be tested on this.

My bro had a friend who was convicted of something similar and has never spoken to him since. It was something people excuse with ‘ah but he didn’t do it himself’. Bro went up in my estimation after this tbh.

We all make our decision as best we can on the evidence in front of us. It is simply virtue signalling to say "I could never be...".

A friend's DH was accused of rape. Broke his marriage, ruined his career. He was cleared by CCTV evidence but the accusation stuck and many people made his life hell - and by extension his wife's and his kids'. His only option was to leave the country, (he had dual nationality).

In reality people do what suits them and you would not leave a rented flat, leave a good job, stop your builder halfway through the kitchen extension because you heard the builder, landlord, boss was an abuser.

Easy to jump on the celebrity bandwagon - costs us nothing. Dig a little deeper and you'l find people can be friends with all sorts of horrible people - if it so suits them.

My cousin's daughter married someone convicted of some kind of sex crime. No one is entirely sure what it was about but he was in jail for at least five years. I did not go to the wedding or the reception on his side and will try very hard not to have anything to do with him but I suspect at family funerals etc..: our paths might cross

I have no idea why she married him

Rapists and abusers rely on those 'Believe women, but my friend would NEVER' people. It gives them so much credibility to have someone who supposedly believes women, but will make an exception for them.

@motherheroic absolutely.

These are excellent questions and it doesn't matter to me if you're a new poster or not.

It is very difficult when the trauma is raw to know that the rest of the world doesn't care enough to confront the evidence and take a side (your side). Sometimes they take the side of the abuser and that's incredibly painful.

I used to weigh (emotionally) in to the types of questions you ask. Such as, would you use an abusive plumber if his services were the cheapest.

I think now as time has gone by I am better able to compartmentalise. Which is better for me obviously. Not sure whether it helps or hinders the people on the receiving end of the abuse if their partners have regular work.

My ex went to prison for DV he still has many friends and his family still talk to him so I don’t think you’re gonna to get proper answers to the questions on here as most people won’t admit to being friends with abusers/rapists.

Not sure whether it helps or hinders the people on the receiving end of the abuse if their partners have regular work. Good question. And the answer won't be simple or the same in all cases.

PumpkinP - exactly - people like to virtue signal and sign petitions regarding celebrities but the reality is far more complex.

I am sorry to hear about your circumstances and hope that you are in a better situation now

Not knowingly

In fact, as a student, I lost my weekend job because I refused to serve a convicted violent rapist, who continued to be allowed on the premises, despite acting in a threatening way towards the female members of staff.

All the big, burly men I worked with, plus the locals, were either intimidated by this man, or didn't care about his conviction, as they were all "hail fellow well met", I had to watch people shake his hand.

One day, after more of his behaviour, I quietly went to my boss, said I felt uncomfortable and asked to swap with a male colleague.
Got bawled out in front of everyone. Stopped being so quiet and loudly informed everyone why I wasn't dealing with this man (because he was a scumbag who raped and tortured women)

Nobody stood up for me. Big men and they did nothing. They let a 19 year old girl face that man down. I quit my job, walked out and never went back.

Six months later, he was up in court for the attempted murder of his girlfriend

I have no regrets and would do the same again. People in my home town stopped speaking to me after that - I was a bitch who made a fuss when I should have kept quiet.

I don't care - they are nothing but weak and pathetic themselves. You lie down with dogs, you come up with fleas. At least I walked away with my integrity and my dignity intact

Taggle - you were very brave. Shame on those who treated you badly

Thank you - though I didn't feel brave, I was motivated by fury and the whole thing made me sick to my stomach. I can see that it's not cut and dried if there is no conviction, but this man served time and every single person knew exactly what he did. They should have shunned him. Backs should have been turned to him when he walked in, instead people were tripping over themselves to be nice to him, even when he continued acting like a creep. Six foot blokes built like bulls, who had known me all my life, were too cowardly to speak up when they saw what was happening.
And I was the one shunned by some people for causing a fuss. Though I had others come to me in private who told me I'd done the right thing and who then took their custom elsewhere.

It was an eye opener. I lost a lot of respect for men after that.

I really agree with you @Lentilbug but then can I ask. How many people have you encountered in real life who share your stance and demonstrate it in their everyday?
For me it’s ZERO.
I agree with the poster above who say that most people just do what suits them best.
Eg they’d happily employ a man accused of beating his wife to tile their home if the discount was big enough. They justify it to themselves by saying things like ‘well nobody knows what goes on behind closed doors’ or ‘well he might be a bit of a rogue but he’s a bloody good tiler’ or ‘well he do nothing to ME’
And so on. So to everyone else . Despite the fact that we see online outrage and campaigns like #metoo etc, how much have you experienced people in real life demonstrating a similar stance?
Not in what they SAY, but in what they do?
And I mean amongst the general public. Not boycotting certain films or celebrities. I mean making choices even if they make your own life uncomfortable.