Unwanted shoulder rubs as a sign of dominance ?!

[OLP2019]

Ok so my dh runs a company and I also work there - I have a normal mid manager level role but obviously slightly different in that my dh is the boss/ I've always tried very hard not to take the piss but we have two dc and due to the seniority of dh role it was always me leaving early to pick them up or staying home if they were sick etc.
Back in the day when we had babies the company was very small and so I was my role so I could easily afford to work part time hours most of the time but always did my work and even if I was "off" did what was needed and never let anyone down
The company has grown a lot and so has my role and i am now full time and work long hours - granted dh and I travel a lot however we are never "off" and always working and I see that as the pay off for coming and going as I please. I'm very successful and good at my job despite dh being the boss he isn't my direct boss and I hardly ever see him in the office
So that's the background! Here's the issue
When we were smaller dh was doing everything and eventually hired a young hot shot sales guy to groom to run the sales team. This guy is a good sales guy but very rough around the edges and a bit cowboy. Has bugged dh for promotion but doesn't seem to get that there is more to a management role than just selling and has never grasped the strategic and forward planning side of the senior role he wants
I would describe him as a big swinging dick kind of guy.
Anyway he seems to have always had an issue with me.
I joke that he wants to be married to dh and get chance for the pillow talk.
He has complained about me to dh more than that made and has also reported me to hr more than once. He doesn't seem to understand how I get to "swan in and out" and he doesn't. Well I guess that is a benefit of being married to the owner of the company .
On the surface we get along but we have butted heads over the years. I have never pulled the "married to the boss" card for what it's worth. We have hung out and had some laughs but knowing what he's said and done behind my back, to my own husband even, I don't trust him at all.

Anyway to get to the aibu - recently Whenever he comes to talk to me he gives me a shoulder massage ! Like comes up behind me and suddenly there he is !!

We are definitely not friendly enough for that kind of physical contact and I do have male friends at work I consider close who would never do that and if they did I would say wtf ?!
For some reason I let him do it because it always takes me by surprise
I wonder if he does it to show other junior staff that he is "in@ with the boss and his wife and also if he does it to dominate me ?!

Thoughts ?!

For the record I don't feel creeped out enough to report it but I do find it very odd that he does it to me and an curious about why when I know he doesn't really like me at all

I wouldn’t go in all guns blazing or report to HR in the first instance. You should be able to deal with this with a polite but firm ‘I don’t feel comfortable with this, please stop’.

If he continues, you repeat that and add ‘it’s not appropriate behaviour in the workplace.’

If he doesn’t stop, at that point you go to HR.

Btw he sounds like an utter knob and I think your DH would better hiring someone else for the role.

@SAHD2020 not if she's not a director or a shareholder of a ltd company.

Agree with all the comments about saying firmly and clearly that he should not do it. At my DS’ nursery they teach them that if another child is doing something that they don’t like they simply say “I don’t like that” and the other child must stop, even if they are not doing any harm. It’s really good, reinforces the idea that it’s not about what the toucher thinks is appropriate, it’s about how the recipient feels and no room for argument.

Separately, you say that he is not good at the management side of his role. Can the company send him on a management course and make sure it includes a section on what is appropriate workplace behaviour?

And if he is still shit at managing after the course your DH can let him go or demote him safe in the knowledge that they tried to support him to improve.

Finally, could you change the workplace layout so that you are not facing into a corner? I am not for a second excusing this idiot, but it may be hard for people to get your attention generally when you are sitting like that. In an office, if you think about it, it’s it’s actually quite unusual to get someone’s attention initially by saying their name- you tend to make eye contact and smile or gesticulate first, before walking closer, but that’s not possible if you have your back to the room. He has chosen a ridiculous way to do so (with an extra helping of power play) but maybe others are finding you less than approachable too, so could be a good moment to re-jig things?

Just because op is married to the owner. It doesnt make her an owner too.

In a divorce she may get some interest in the business. That's in the case of divorce though.

We dont know how its set up. So telling her to pull rank as coowner may not be helpful.

He sounds like a dick. But personally, I dont like the 'bosses wife get perks'. Torally understand you working loads, nor just from the office. But if other staff have picked up on the 'bosses wife gets perks and I can come and go as I please'. It will cause resentment.

Your husbands response when he complains to him should be ‘she is my wife and a co-owner of this company (which you are as you are married), so please be careful what you say’.

And this is terrible advice. The ops DJ owns the company. If he cant deal with complaints about his wife, like he would deal with them about any other employee, he shouldnt employing his wife.

Lead by example. Maybe (in your words) 'swanning in and out" and allowing him to rub your shoulders gives out the wrong message to your co-workers?

So glad PPs are picking up on the fact that OPs position in the company IS NOT the same as an employee married to a senior employee in a company.

I think there may be more fundamental issues with the way your role in the company is presented by you and your DH.

You have contributed significantly to the company - both through your work and presumably through what your DH has 'taken' from joint assets to build it.

You have created this together. Why are you seen as just another employee?! Why do you need to apologise for reaping the benefits of your hard work and compromise. Yes you get to set your working hours. And yes you get to tell this swinging dick to back the fuck off.

You promote what you permit - you are in a unique position to challenge him and signal to the other women in the office that this is not acceptable. He is risking the whole ethos and values of your company - assuming you respect and value your female workforce?- with this dinosaur power play. Challenge that.

This behaviour as PP have said is pure power play. Men rely on the fact that women are socially conditioned to be nice, polite and not make a fuss.

So that’s exactly what you shouldn’t be. Don’t tell him that it makes you uncomfortable, don’t feign physical injury etc. that type of physical and psychological dominance is what this behaviour aims to achieve.

Next time he does it stand up, and loudly, but without shouting, say “why are you touching me” if he starts to bluff and bluster “ it’s not appropriate, don’t do it again”

You can be professional and civil, but you are giving an instruction so there’s no need to be polite.

You need to put him right back in his place.

Once you’ve done that advise HR so they can make a note in case of other similar complaints, and tell DH so that his card is firmly marked there.

Also as a PP said, if you sit in a corner and you are senior could your furniture be arranged to face out? That would be much better and you can position it as you don’t want your back to the team.

The next time he does it, jerk your elbow backwards hard so it hits him in the stomach. Then turn round and say 'Whoops, oh dear, you startled me, sorry', and walk away.

I think the shoulder thing is vile and should be assertively nipped in the bud

But work fairness and justice is important and it’s worthwhile ensuring it’s seem as a level and consistent playing field for all . That’s all , as if not it can cause poor morale

It might be something very simple could adress this perceived injustice

Put on your best “mum telling off a naughty child” voice and tell him firmly.

“Gary, that’s inappropriate, stop it now.”

Surely "take your hands off me" will suffice? Or if you don't want to be confrontational just stand up and walk off each time he does it.

My thoughts are you should tell your husband what he's been doing, involve HR and an employment lawyer and aim to get rid of him sooner than later.

He might bring in the sales, but so can plenty of others without needing to act like a dick in the process. He's an idiot. He needs to either change his ways or go and you're in a better position than most to ensure that happens.

Meantime get on your high horse and tell him to stop it every time he steps out of line. Fight back! The harassment awareness course sounds like a good idea too if you decide between you both that his sales performance justifies a second chance and him staying for now. Although personally I don't think I'd be happy with that outcome but maybe it's best for the business.

Speak to her / your direct manager/ husband. He is probably doing this to other women. You are allowing yourself to be harassed.

Why are you not co owner? It would put you on the correct footing seeing as you invested your labour and input in the company from when it was small. I’m not just talking about protecting you in the case of divorce. This is about your standing. It would be positive if you could stick up for women.

Why is he walking behind you anyway? You are sat in a corner, it is not as if he had to walk behind you to get anywhere else.

His behaviour is disrespectful, and creepy, and you let him get away with it.

How would you feel if a more timid member of staff was experiencing similar inappropriate touching from him but felt they couldn't complain because you seem to be ok with it and in doing so their complaint would have no effect? I agree with PP who said that if this man has the nerve to complain about you to your DH the chances are he undermines you with the rest of the workforce.

Don't let him walk behind you, I would find that intimidating in itself. I worked in an office where one of our members always had to be facing into the main office, they had been attacked from behind when they were younger so was always anxious about people coming up behind them.

Just tell him to stop, ffs! Unwanted touching is harrassment, but until you tell him it's unwanted, he won't know.

A simple "Please don't do that. It's inappropriate and I don't like it." If he does it after that, then point out it's harrassment. And if the company doesn't have a harrassment policy, it should get one pdq.

I'm amazed by this, I haven't worked in an organisation where this would be considered appropriate for over 30 years.

For the record I don't feel creeped out enough to report it but I do find it very odd that he does it to me and an curious about why when I know he doesn't really like me at all

He's being really inappropriate, and I think he's doing it to prove he's dominant, just as you suggested. And guess what? He's getting away with it because you've not said anything to him about it at all.

I don't think it would be "telling tales" to report this. I would be tempted to speak to HR, and to definitely tell your husband.

Plan what you're going to do so that the next time it happens, you're prepared. From what you've said it sounds as though your best option would be to stand up as soon as he puts his hands on you, and to say loudly, something like, "What are you touching me for? Stop it now!"

He'll try to say you can't take a joke, or that you're overreacting. Respond by saying, "You touched me without my consent. Don't do it again." Don't respond to his attempts to minimise or deny.

As soon as this has happened, tell HR that you've told him not to touch you again. Then if he does something else there'll be a paper trail showing that he's harassing you.

He might be a good sales person but he's not a good employee, and your business might well be better off without him.

He reported the co-owner of the company to HR?? Is this guy an idiot?

Of course you have flexible working, you and your husband own the company!

Honestly, I'd start pulling rank. Tell him his behaviour isn't appropriate.

I'd bet op holds at least 40% shares in the company (if she doesn't then their accountant should be sacked).

You are being very irresponsible here.

By allowing this to happen you are giving both him and any other employees who witness it the idea that sexual harassment is seen as acceptable in the company. Because you are accepting it and you are the owner’s wife.

Your husband owns the company. He is responsible for what happens within it.

Do you sit in a corner with your back to the room? I'd move things around if so so that he can never creep up behind you like that. Face the door.

I'd also tell him to stop, possibly in front of your DH if poss (just thinking it would be interesting if he tried to deny doing it then) and then report to HR.

I wonder if he does it to show other junior staff that he is in with the boss and his wife and also if he does it to dominate me

Definitely it is a power play tactic. At best your colleagues will think he's trying to be 'in with the boss' wife, at worst they may think there's something funny going on between the two of you (if you have office gossips). You should be telling him directly to stop "Gary, it's very inappropriate to touch a colleague. If you do it to me again, or if I see you do it to another colleague, then I will have no choice but to report you." Look him straight in the eye when you say it. It's not only asserting your own boundaries, it will be setting a good example to other women in the office that they can speak up of they experience inappropriate behaviour.

I agree with PP, if there's an opportunity to do so, have a look at the office set up and see if you can move things around so that you (and no other person) is sitting facing a wall or corner.

I agree with everyone else, tell him to stop.

And stop joking around with him, be polite and professional but not his best buddy. It’s fake anyway as you said you don’t trust him.

You say your husband owns the company - is he a sole trader ? If so, speak to an accountant about becoming a limited company. Make sure you get a significance number of the shares ( at least 40%) as your hard work ( at home as well as in the office ) has build it up from 5 staff. This is way more tax efficient.

If it’s already a limited company, then sack your accountant.

Then unpleasant employee can show you a bit more respect as an owner / director of the company.

This sort of behaviour simply doesn't fly in 2019! It is technically assault, definitely harassment and totally inappropriate.

Rather than waiting for next time to deal with it, could you call him aside next time he's in the office and have a stand-up meeting (this doesn't let him get comfortable and lets you control the distance between you as well as shortening the time. Be sure to position yourself so he can't corner you.)

Then you calmly, clearly and unapologetically state that he has overstepped the mark by putting his hands on you without your consent, coming up from behind without warning so you are suddenly trapped between chair and desk with nowhere to go and continuing to impose unwanted touching.

If he starts to splutter excuses or justifications or responds in joking disbelief, just raise a palm towards him and tell him this is not a conversation, it's an objection and he just needs to listen.

Make clear what you want: the touching must stop, his behaviour towards you must be appropriate for the workplace.

Make a note of what you want to say beforehand and note what he says afterwards, dating and keeping both notes as evidence.

If he apologises and undertakes not to repeat the behaviour, end the meeting quickly and resume work. If he tries to argue and bring things up against you, announce you are ending the conversation and walk away. In the case that he fails to apologise and undertake to behave respectfully, you then need to put in a formal complaint to HR.

If he's doing this to you, it won't be the first time and you won't be the only one. Consider the possibility that he is already known to HR and could already be on a final warning for this!

Likewise, if he apologises and undertakes to behave respectfully but later makes a show of tiptoeing around you with sarcastic comments about not daring to brush up against you, go straight to HR with your complaint.

Anything that takes your mind of your work and makes you feel embarrassed or uncomfortable is out of order.

As I see it, he could respond three ways: genuinely apologetic and remorseful; defensive and angry and inclined to justify or minimise; eye-rolling blokey-jokey fake disbelief with suggestions of over-reaction on your part and harmlessness on his. Anything but the first suggests you need to complain officially.

There's a remote possibility that he might deny ever touching you at all, but if you work in a shared office he will know there are witnesses!

Bottom line: don't wait until he does it again because you are then in an uncomfortable position. Be proactive and put him on the spot unexpectedly for a change!

Is your DH likely to take his side or sack him on the spot? I'm wondering why you haven't already told him, tbh

Long speeches don't come easily in this type of situation. They always do it when your guard's down, mine was a waist squeezer.

A shoulder wriggle, and a sharp "Get OFF" is so much easier.