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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to ask you to read Operation Yellowhammer documents and see for yourself how Brexit will impact you

695 replies

chomalungma · 11/09/2019 20:55

Just been released

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/831199/20190802_Latest_Yellowhammer_Planning_assumptions_CDL.pdf

And I wonder what Number 15 is. It's been redacted.

So much to highlight:

Impact of food and fuel prices on poorer people.
Impact exacerbated due to winter flu issues at that time of year
Lorries delayed and flow reduced to 40 - 60%

And I'm only on page 1

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Thread gallery
16
chomalungma · 12/09/2019 21:22

Op which part of this gridlocked parliament do you think can honour democratic vote and come up with working solutions

You are right that Parliament is gridlocked. You are right that more people voted to Leave than Remain. You also know that there are many different versions of what Leave means to people - as has been argued in Parliament by members on all sides.

Given circumstances have changed significantly since the last time the WA was put up, I strongly suspect that there is appetite ACROSS the House for that agreement now- or a version of it.

I am sure you would have no problem if MPs voted for the WA now.

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TheSlugAndLettuce · 12/09/2019 21:22

burnttoast I read it on the Westminstenders thread. It's my favourite rumour!

Septembersunrays · 12/09/2019 21:25

Brexit and self sufficiency has turned me into a pie maker. I've only made one but I intend on using my freezer real estate Wisely.

I'm also buying extra loo roll, I can only use one brand and pain killers.

My dd has inhaler, not regular use but she's been hospitalised, we already always have spare inhalers... Ie its not a lax situation but not urgent as everyday asthmatics...

But I'm not worried in slightest.

I'm not worried about anything. Expect remaining in eu, votes being discarded, the death of democracy and possible civil war if vote not realised and being stuck in rotten nasty eu.

chomalungma · 12/09/2019 21:28

Expect remaining in eu, votes being discarded, the death of democracy and possible civil war if vote not realised and being stuck in rotten nasty eu

So you would have no problem if the democratic vote was realised by voting for the agreement that Theresa May brought back?

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57Varieties · 12/09/2019 21:29

It is absolutely ridiculous. It’s the duty of government to act in the best interests of its citizens, not send the country of over 60m people off the edge off a cliff due to some very warped notion of what amounts to “democracy”.

Dutch1e · 12/09/2019 21:47

possible civil war if vote not realised

A flurry of angry Facebook posts.

WhoWants2Know · 12/09/2019 21:52

Having read most of this thread, I later passed a stream of around 30 big military trucks on my drive home from work. That felt just a tad alarming...

Binkybix · 12/09/2019 21:54

Oooh where is the Westminstenders thread please?

Some boost to the economy is though all of the no deal prep spending.

birdandroses · 12/09/2019 21:54

Remainers are A1 OK with individual states subsuming themselves into a European superstate; Leavers want to be able to vote their law makers in and vote them out.

The UK is not subsuming itself into an EU superstate. It is a myth the UK is not sovereign while a member of the EU and EU control our laws. They don’t. The vast bulk of the issues that the British care about are decided not in Brussels but in Britain such as policing, the NHS, social care, taxes. None depends on us leaving the EU.

The one area, however, where our laws are made collectively by Europe is in respect of the single market and customs union. This was a deliberate choice by successive governments to ease trade by having one common set of rules. So BMW-Mini sells its cars across Europe and makes them through supply chains that operate without barriers. As part of facilitating the single market, we also share sovereignty for workers rights, social protections and environment. This government under Johnson want to become a low tax, low regulation economy which will sweep away these protections we enjoy presently, put the NHS at risk to the American corporations under a trade deal with the US - where as instead of a partner with 27 other countries we will be a supplicant to the much bigger US who will hold all the cards - and the welfare state will be skeletal.

Regarding how EU laws are made, they are agreed by two institutions: the council of ministers, comprising ministers from 28 (including UK) EU governments and the European parliament. These ministers have been voted in by their country’s electorate. Copying from online:

All discussions & votes take place in public.
To be passed, decisions usually require a qualified majority :
55% of countries (with 28 current members, this means 16 countries)
representing at least 65 % of total EU population.
To block a decision, at least 4 countries are needed (representing at least 35% of total EU population)
Exception - sensitive topics like foreign policy and taxation require a unanimous vote(all countries in favour).
Simple majority is required for procedural & administrative issues”

Regarding the EU Parliament, many British MEPs argue they have more power to shape EU law than their Westminster colleagues. An article reports a ‘British MEP said that the House of Commons is a “rubber stamp parliament” when it comes to shaping legislation: “It is headline news if [the Commons] amends a government bill, whereas here … there is scarcely a piece of legislation that will get through without being amended.”
The European parliament also has the power to dismiss the commission and approves the appointment of the politicians who lead it. Since 2014, MEPs have chosen who gets to be president of the commission.

When people talk about “the unelected bureaucrats of Brussels”, they usually mean the European commission. The commission is more than a civil service but less than a government. Composed of 28 commissioners - selected by the Heads of state or government (in UK our Prime Minister) whose party we voted into power – one from each country – the commission drafts, enforces and monitors EU laws. But it does not pass laws.

All countries must trade, no country stands alone. We either align much closer with the US or remain part of the EU or very closely tied. I think EU is much more preferable where we are an active partner and citizens get more protections.

As for Operation Yellowhammer, this isn’t even worse case scenario under a No Deal. It’s clear a No Deal will cause the UK much hardship short and long term for most of its citizens.

birdandroses · 12/09/2019 21:58

Some boost to the economy is though all of the no deal prep spending.

Yet paltry in comparison to loss of UK GDP under a no deal.

chomalungma · 12/09/2019 21:58

Oooh where is the Westminstenders thread please

MN put Brexit threads in a different area after the referendum because they felt that such an important topic needed to be hidden away so most people couldn't find it*

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/3690753-Westminstenders-Its-like-a-bloody-aviary

*That might not be the reason MN said

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ReanimatedSGB · 12/09/2019 22:10

Don't forget: Brexit is a heist. It's a criminal conspiracy, and this is becoming clearer and clearer: it was always about a group of billionaires making a huge sum of money out of chaos. And they reckoned that there were just about enough vicious, stupid people whose bigotry could be inflamed to make it possible. The British ones probably took inspiration from the way decades of propaganda against the poor made it possible to decimate the benefit system and the NHS and get just enough poor people to blame everything on those slightly poorer than themselves.

TheSlugAndLettuce · 12/09/2019 22:11

You want the flamingo thread.

HerSymphonyAndSong · 12/09/2019 22:13

We have been governed by liars for years, claiming that they couldn’t improve things for poor and vulnerable people “because of the EU” when actually it was within their power and it was their choice to do nothing

timshelthechoice · 12/09/2019 22:43

Spot on, SGB and HerSymphony.

Graphista · 12/09/2019 23:24

I really do feel "jokes" about shortages of avocados...or baristas! Are offensive now. It's past the point of humour as far as I'm concerned when we're looking at even fairly committed leavers ADMITTING There ARE likely to be not only food shortages but ESSENTIAL medicines and medical equipment not getting through - would you REALLY be joking if this was likely to affect those you love? And IF it is - would they appreciate you joking about the situation?

If Johnson did throw up at least that shows he has SOME idea of what a fuck up it all is! Doesn't necessarily show he has a conscience or empathy though...simply balking at the thought of getting the blame if it does all go completely to pot!

I don't see how Remainers can be accused of gullibility when WE are the ones questioning everything we're being told - wherever it comes from! Accusations of pessimism/scaremongering and similar do at least make sense but gullible? No! Leavers are the ones that have largely blindly accepted what those WHO AGREE WITH THEM have said without critiquing or considering other sources.

The sheer amount of "othering" and propaganda that has gone on to get poor people to think this is REMOTELY in their interests is astounding!

What brexit has already done for me personally is :

Revealed which "friends" we're racists (no longer friends)

Revealed which "friends" think pretty much everyone on benefits are "at it" (again no longer friends)

Thankfully it's MAINLY been a case of having confirmed that most of my friends, and all my family, including some who are EXTREMELY wealthy and are unlikely to be significantly affected whatever happens and have the resources to just bugger off if needed actually DO care about those who are vulnerable, sick, poor and NEED our country to be run well and compassionately for all. It's an utter disgrace that our govt can't be the same.

ReanimatedSGB we don't always agree but I completely agree with that post. It's a complete bloody con job perpetrated by self serving compassionless arseholes like JRM who've NEVER Known a bloody days suffering or vulnerability in their lives!

I say this somewhat tongue in cheek usually but at this point I think we seriously need to consider implementing something like this so we NEVER end up in a similar mess again. And that is:

Everyone who wants to be an MP should spend 6 months living in social housing on MINIMUM benefits and try to find a job WITHOUT using the benefits of a privileged background but just based on a dummied up "average" cv and having to take into account things like can they get to the job on public transport - maybe THEN they will have SOME appreciation of how hard it is for many.

The idea of someone like IDS (he of the £39 breakfast!) trying to manage a life and job hunt on £73.34 a week is very appealing to me!

I would also (and yes I know mps of ALL colours are guilty of this one!) would stop serving mps from being allowed to hold business interests that conflict with carrying out their duties as mps. I'm particularly thinking of (but not limiting it to) being landlords or property developers. A HUGE part of hardship many are trying to cope with is housing costs - yet it's really shocking looking at the MPs that vote against measures to reduce housing costs who are landlords/property developers and clearly voting in their own self interest and NOT that of their constituents or the wider population.

I know such things aren't directly brexit related but they certainly have contributed to people's feelings of being badly treated and ignored!

HelenaDove · 12/09/2019 23:37

Spot on Graphista I think the reason some Leave voters chose to vote that way was due to division and disillusionment.

HelenaDove · 12/09/2019 23:47

www.theguardian.com/politics/2012/aug/17/tory-backbenchers-urge-welfare-reforms

Britons are among "the worst idlers" in the world preferring a "lie-in to hard work", according to group of rising stars of the Tory party, who have advocated a tough set of work reforms in a new book.

According to leaked extracts from the book, Britannia Unchained – Global Growth and Prosperity, five Tory MPs from the "class of 2010" call for a culture of "graft, risk and effort" to propel Britain into the "superleague" of nations.

The book contains a blueprint of radical reforms. The MPs – Kwasi Kwarteng, Priti Patel, Dominic Raab, Chris Skidmore and Elizabeth Truss – say: "Once they enter the workplace, the British are among the worst idlers in the world. We work among the lowest hours, we retire early and our productivity is poor

The MPs claim the UK workforce should model itself on the workers of South Korea, Singapore and Hong Kong, rather those in European nations – or watch living standards fall away.

The Evening Standard reports the authors as saying: "Britain will never be as big as China or Brazil, but we can look forward to a new generation, ready to get to work. If we are to take advantage of these opportunities, we must get on the side of the responsible, the hard working and the brave. We must stop bailing out the reckless, avoiding all risk, and rewarding laziness."

The 184-page book will be published shortly before the Conservatives' autumn conference. In it, the five rehearse well-worn Tory themes about how the welfare state has sapped the strength and vigour of the British economy. "We work among the lowest hours, we retire early and our productivity is poor," they say in the book.

Kwarteng told the Standard: We need to look beyond Europe for economic success We should be starting now. There is no reason why we can't be pushing ahead with a lot of this. [London mayor] Boris [Johnson] when he talks about big infrastructure projects, deregulation and cutting taxes, is absolutely on the money."

He added: "There is definitely a new right, which is much more international in its focus. The old Tory right are a busted flush."

The Guardian contacted all five MPs on Friday. Only Raab responded but declined to comment, saying the Standard had "broken the book's embargo".

Labour attacked the claims by the Tory backbenchers – and called on David Cameron to distance himself from their views. Chuka Umunna, shadow business secretary, said: "First they blame British businesses for their economic failures and now they blame the people who work within them, showing how out of touch the Tory party has become.

"Arguing that working Britons are 'the worst idlers in the world' is deeply insulting. People who work hard, play by the rules and pay their taxes shouldn't have to put up with Tory MPs calling them lazy – especially when prices are rising faster than their wages, their tax credits are being cut and Britain is in a double-dip recession made in Downing Street."

The controversial comments come days after Johnson urged the prime minister to stop "pussyfooting around" over plans to build another London airport and reduce the strain on Heathrow.

LayLar360 · 13/09/2019 01:32

Yeah you'll definitely be losing some of your holiday allowances and alike post-Brexit. It'll be presented as how everyone need to pull together and work hard as a country in order to boost the economy.

Save for those disaster capitalis who led the Brexit charge of course, who'll be sitting pretty.

#We'reAllInThisTogether

Graphista · 13/09/2019 01:32

Omg! The arrogance!

Kwasi Kwarteng - yet another privileged old Etonian who's never done a days hard graft in his life!

Priti Patel - a traitorous, incompetent fool who ALSO has never done a days actual graft!

Dominic Raab - seemingly the "poor relation" of the group but STILL never done an actual days graft!

Chris Skidmore - guess what? ANOTHER that's never done a days graft!

Elizabeth Truss - another "poor relation" (relatively speaking) a class traitor who...drumroll please - never done a days graft in her life!

Wtf do they know about "idle" Brits?!

I despair I really do!

If you're a leave voter and its arseholes like this spouting crap like that which made you vote leave? You played right into their hands!

Truss the only remainer there (and she's apparently changed her mind) the rest all leave and the first 3 no-dealers.

ALL wealthy and healthy enough to not need to worry about any distasteful consequences personally.

And this is who leavers listen to?! WHY?!!!!

HelenaDove · 13/09/2019 02:10

It makes very chilling reading seven years on now that we are where we are doesnt it?

When i posted about division i remembered them coming out with this.

A well known MNer posted something about lazy white flabby benefit claimants which is something else i remember. Roughly around the same time.

Division.

WaterSheep · 13/09/2019 06:47

ALL wealthy and healthy enough to not need to worry about any distasteful consequences personally.

I think this is worth repeating. They really do live in a different world to most of us, and they won't be the ones who suffer because of Brexit. Sad

bellinisurge · 13/09/2019 06:53

I can imagine those twats sighing " the poor are always with us" like some Victorian melodrama, then cooking up the modern equivalent of "dark satanic mills" and "workhouses" to "solve" it.

Iggly · 13/09/2019 07:21

Are all Leavers happy with hedge funds making billions out of betting on the value of the pound due to Brexit?

Are they happy with the allegations about Farage effectively lying about the referendum so that the pound would drop. He made the comments about losing, knowing that there was polling data showing otherwise, so he could make a fortune?

He doesn’t care about Brexit other than to make money.

Same as Aaron Banks.

Same as Jacob Rees Mogg.

They are going to make a fucking fortune and continue to make a fortune at our expense.

We do not get richer when they get richer. This has been proven time and time again. We get poorer.

They will also dodge taxes on a grand scale and the EU knows it. That’s why they’ve brought in new laws to uncover it.

That’s why they all want to leave the EU.

That’s why they’ve thrown out the idea of project fear, of remoaners, of traitors etc - because they want people to push for Leave.

Then when it all goes tits up, they retire off to their tax havens (or stay in the UK which will no doubt become one), and hide in their mansions.

The EU wasn’t seen as a problem until these people came up with the propaganda to make it one.

Iggly · 13/09/2019 07:23

Farage helping hedge funds