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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to ask you to read Operation Yellowhammer documents and see for yourself how Brexit will impact you

695 replies

chomalungma · 11/09/2019 20:55

Just been released

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/831199/20190802_Latest_Yellowhammer_Planning_assumptions_CDL.pdf

And I wonder what Number 15 is. It's been redacted.

So much to highlight:

Impact of food and fuel prices on poorer people.
Impact exacerbated due to winter flu issues at that time of year
Lorries delayed and flow reduced to 40 - 60%

And I'm only on page 1

OP posts:
Thread gallery
16
CactusAndCacti · 12/09/2019 13:33

It's all very doom and gloom but I deal with numerous emergency planning documents and they always are worst case scenarios.

No. To repeat numerous other posts this was originally titled Base Case Scenerio. That is what is most likely to happen. Black swan is worse case scenario.

ContinuityError · 12/09/2019 13:37

blubberyboo it’s my understanding that cabotage will be severely impacted under no deal as well?

RosiePosiePuddle · 12/09/2019 13:41

Reanimated

That link should be shared around as far and wide as possible: bylinetimes.com/2019/09/11/brexit-disaster-capitalism-8-billion-bet-on-no-deal-crash-out-by-boris-johnsons-leave-backers/

The only way this can benefit the ordinary person is by giving them a bit of a warm glow that they not linked to the EU any longer. And who even thought about the EU 4 years ago?

I reckon there are three broad reasons for Brexit

  1. Disaster capitalism
  2. Deregulation (which means working, environmental and safety protections gone)
  3. Tax avoidance

Only for the rich to get richer.

bellinisurge · 12/09/2019 13:42

@CactusAndCacti is right. First thing that struck me when I read it was: this isn't worst case scenario stuff.

ScreamingLadySutch · 12/09/2019 13:44

"The government has lost its majority. The constitution has fallen apart. The country no longer has any idea whether it is leaving the European Union or not. Historians and political commentators are queuing up to tell us this is the lowest point in the country’s history since the Suez Crisis/Civil War/Dissolution of the Monasteries (delete as applicable).

And yet, amid all this chaos and confusion, something else is happening. The economy, slightly surprisingly, is purring along quite smoothly. The explanation? In truth, the EU doesn’t make much difference to the economy anymore. And insofar as it does, leaving is a marginal improvement.

The City expected the economic data released this week to make grim reading. Global trade is slowing, with central banks in the US and the eurozone cutting rates to try and stave off recession. Add in a slowdown in investment as companies understandably fret about our potentially chaotic departure from the EU and the British economy should be slowing down sharply.

Except that is not quite what happened. First, we learnt that the economy overall expanded by 0.3 per cent in July, significantly faster than the 0.1 per cent expected, and better than most of our main rivals. Next, we found out that the trade deficit narrowed slightly as imports fell. Finally, we learned that employment was at record highs and that wages were still growing at record rates. Add in a Chancellor who is about to start spending money with carefree abandon and there is no reason why it shouldn’t improve from here. It isn’t fantastic. But it is a decent performance from a mature economy facing what is meant to be its biggest economic challenge in a generation.

In fact, there are two explanations for that. The first and simplest is that membership of the EU, and all the political drama around it, doesn’t make a lot of difference to business one way or another. They have made their preparations and can live with either outcome. Sure, there might be some disruption around no deal if that is what happens. But demographics, demand, skills, tax rates and levels of entrepreneurship, innovation and infrastructure are what actually determine growth. Membership of a big – but not terribly successful – trade bloc isn’t that crucial one way or another.

Next, at the margin, our looming departure is a slight improvement. You can see that most clearly in the employment and wage data. As the amount of cheap eastern and central European labour has started to fall, employers have had to pay their people a bit more. As the research consultancy High Frequency Economics noted in an analysis of the figures: ‘We believe we are seeing a change in the composition of the workforce as the economy loses foreign workers, largely in low wage jobs’. Much as the textbooks would suggest, with a lower supply of cheap labour companies are starting to restructure so that they use fewer people and pay the ones they have a little more. Sure, some companies that are completely dependent on low paid labour will suffer. But on balance that will be an improvement, especially as those higher wages will soon translate into higher spending, creating more growth.

In truth, the drama around Brexit may be a political earthquake. But to the economy, it is already largely an irrelevance. And on balance, it is turning into a positive." - Matthew Lyn

bellinisurge · 12/09/2019 13:45

Lovely. Then we will be well placed to shoot ourselves in the foot.

SmileCheese · 12/09/2019 13:46

No. To repeat numerous other posts this was originally titled Base Case Scenerio. That is what is most likely to happen. Black swan is worse case scenario.

No wonder we are heading for such a shit storm. Its been written on this thread so many times that this is not the worst case scenario and still people see unable to comprehend and acknowledge that it can and probably will be much, much worse. I don't see how much clearer this point can be made. Hmm

Juells · 12/09/2019 13:52

And yet, amid all this chaos and confusion, something else is happening. The economy, slightly surprisingly, is purring along quite smoothly. The explanation? In truth, the EU doesn’t make much difference to the economy anymore. And insofar as it does, leaving is a marginal improvement.

It hasn't happened yet.

Clavinova · 12/09/2019 13:55

Havanananana

I don't know what the current port contingency plans are - back in December it was reported that the government awarded ferry contracts to divert up to 4,000 trucks per week away from Dover.

That means if they are delayed on one journey it will have a knock on effect for the return journey and all other journeys that week.

Yes, I mentioned turn-around earlier - but why would the French government want to hamper EU truck drivers or prevent the UK from exporting billions of pounds of medicines to the EU? We do manufacture and export a lot of medicines to the EU by the way.

Incidentally, Eurotunnel reported a 12% reduction in freight traffic in April this year - because of all the stockpiling that had taken place in March.

(Did they mention foreign tourists in Yellowhammer?)
Not in the documents

How odd they didn't mention 38 million foreign tourists - Project Fear for UK citizens but not the tourists!

At any given time, there are about 750,000 tourists in the UK, so just over 1% of people in the country.

That's too simplistic - there were 3 million tourists here in May.

Just heard on LBC radio that 300,000 EU citizens applied for settled status in August alone - I thought everyone was leaving the sinking ship?

Cam77 · 12/09/2019 13:58

I thought taking actions which disrupt a country’s food, fuel and medicine supplies is the sort of thing that terrorists usually do. Oh no, silly me, it’s the Conservative party and these people are the patriots apparently. war is peace, black is white etc etc

Idontwanttotalk · 12/09/2019 14:05

@58chomalungma

"Number 6 goes through the impact on medicines.

75% of medicines come via Dover'
If that is the case, then presumably the government are aware of that and alternative measures will be in place to ensure minimal disruption.

Why do you want us to read this to see how Brexit will affect us? What do you want us to do as a result of reading it?

Quellium · 12/09/2019 14:09

Of course they are applying for settled status. They've made lives here never expecting that something as insane and upsetting as Brexit could come along and put that at risk.

Would you spend 30 years in a country, making a life, working, living here with family and friends and then just go 'ah well, suppose I could go back to where my family was originally from. That seems easy, low cost and not likely to cause any upheaval!'.

Honestly, it beggars belief that Brexits can't see that.

This is their home and Brexit completely screws them over. It's utterly shameful.

Havanananana · 12/09/2019 14:10

Mathew Lynn writes for the Telegraph and the Spectator, both pro-Brexit papers that employ journalists to put a positive spin on Brexit.

For example:

'membership of the EU, and all the political drama around it, doesn’t make a lot of difference to business one way or another' Membership of a big – but not terribly successful – trade bloc isn’t that crucial one way or another.

Bullshit. The UK won't appreciate the true value of EU membership until it is lost. Free and frictionless access to the biggest, wealthiest and most successful trading bloc, just 22 miles away, is vital to the success of the country. Membership of a bloc representing 500m people gives the UK far more bargaining power than a country of 60m trying to negotiate with the USA, China, India, the EU and all of the other large trading blocs. The UK cannot replace £289 billion of trade by doing deal with Fiji and the Faroes.

And if it really doesn't make any difference, why has the government already wasted billions of pounds, and millions of hours of the brightest brains in the UK, trying to leave? If it makes no difference, then leaving cannot bring about any improvement.

blubberyboo · 12/09/2019 14:15

Yes the trucks would have more restrictions on the number of deliveries they could make within an EU country before having to return to the UK and it could affect them being able to pass through eu countries to reach non eu countries. I understand the demand for permits would far outweigh the ability of the government to issue them
None of which would be cost effective or practical which would only lead to less goods and higher prices in my humble opinion. And less lorry drivers wanting to do it.

bellinisurge · 12/09/2019 14:19

I love the idea of Clavinova (who has been quiet for a bit) sitting up all night clicking various links and falling down internet rabbit holes just to bring us arguments as to why a government sanctioned medium case assessment (that only a few hours earlier Andrea Leadsom said we didn't need to trouble our dear little hearts with) is all bullshit.

HerSymphonyAndSong · 12/09/2019 14:20

Right, I want 100% proof from no deal leavers that everything will be better after no deal brexit. 100% proof, otherwise I won’t believe anything you say.

Havanananana · 12/09/2019 14:23

That's too simplistic - there were 3 million tourists here in May

May has 4 weeks - so at any given time, there were about 750,000 tourists in the country. It is a simplistic calculation, but made easier by the fact that there is a limited number of flights and ferries to the UK and a limited amount of accommodation (hotels, B&Bs etc) so the average number of tourists remains fairly constant, with some seasonal variations.

Just heard on LBC radio that 300,000 EU citizens applied for settled status in August alone - I thought everyone was leaving the sinking ship?

I live in an area with a very high number of Italian families. Over 30% of the population have Italian ancestry, many of whom have been in the UK for over 50 years but who have retained their Italian passports. It is only now that it has been made clear to them that they need to apply for settled status before 31st October or risk the uncertainty of whatever Patel might decide on 1st November.

Idontwanttotalk · 12/09/2019 14:26

"Just heard on LBC radio that 300,000 EU citizens applied for settled status in August alone - I thought everyone was leaving the sinking ship?"
So, even knowing that Brexit will supposedly destroy the economy, EU nationals are queuing up to settle here. That's because they aren't listening to all the pathetic scaremongering that we are subject to. Maybe they are more educated?

The main driver of an economy is confidence and only the constant whinging and scare-mongering will cause problems with Brexit.

Havanananana · 12/09/2019 14:32

So, even knowing that Brexit will supposedly destroy the economy, EU nationals are queuing up to settle here.

Many of them are already settled in the UK and have been for many years. Now they are being obliged to register and ask permission to stay in a country that has been their home for perhaps 20 or more years (55 years in the case of one of my closest friends).

HerSymphonyAndSong · 12/09/2019 14:34

“pathetic scaremongering“

Proof that it’s scaremongering please - I will determine whether you have met my requirements for burden of proof

knittedgoldfish · 12/09/2019 14:36

Only scaremongering would cause an issue with us severing current ties with almost all of the countries we currently trade with. Do you really believe that?

SmileCheese · 12/09/2019 14:36

So, even knowing that Brexit will supposedly destroy the economy, EU nationals are queuing up to settle here.

Well not really as lots of these people applying for settled status have been here for decades. Its just now they are being forced to apply for fear of what might happen if they don't have settled status before the end of October.

HerSymphonyAndSong · 12/09/2019 14:40

Yep, I have many many EU nationals as friends and colleagues and most who are sorting out settled status are ambivalent and frightened about it. They are worried about what will happen if they don’t (will they lose their jobs, be separated from their families?) but also about being on an official list of “foreigners” - we know how well that has gone in the past

HelenaDove · 12/09/2019 14:40

Yeah @Septembersunrays Its the Remainers who are abusive Hmm

twitter.com/Anthony_M_Kelly/status/1171356224467722240?s=20

"The Brexiteers Outside Parliament told Rhiannon to get Cancer, her response was to say you are Eighteen Months to Late!"

knittedgoldfish · 12/09/2019 14:42

It's also an interesting definition of scaremongering when you are applying it to the position considered most realistic by the people responsible for promoting and preparing the country for no deal. But I guess you'll believe whatever is necessary to ensure you can blame someone other than yourself and those who did and continue to lie to you.