AIBU to ask you who started the Troubles in the North of Ireland?

[1FineDane]

If you watch this new BBC documentary, what is your answer?
I know British people think the IRA started the whole shit, but this is a BBC documentary and fairly unbiased.

I hope you watch it to realise what history there is in Northern Ireland.

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0008c47/spotlight-spotlight-on-the-troubles-a-secret-history-episode-1

If they could get away with it the UK would hand back NI in a heart beat. It would save them a fortune
Haha to that. I am glad it costs them a fortune considering they destroyed it.

but this is a BBC documentary and fairly unbiased.

When do you start and stop laughing?

09EmeraldShamrock
Haha to that. I am glad it costs them a fortune considering they destroyed it.

That's exactly the kind of talk that keeps the hatred alive.
No my stats reference to wanting to be Irish is from those in Northern Ireland not just Britain or timbuktu.

You think loyalist applied for Irish passports because they wanted to be Irish. Okay.
I'd bet they applied in order to have access to the EU.
I'd also bet many are tucked in beside their blue passport.
15 years ago it would have been unacceptable.
DP and his family would never apply for a British passport being Nationalists.

Have you watched the documentary Mr Pan? If so why did you think it was bias and for what group?
Ian paisley jr. advised everyone in NI to apply for an Irish passport. It definitely wasn't because he is beginning to feel a little bit irish, it was for easy access to Europe when Brexit happens.

Yes that's correct.... many were from both "sides"... So yes not such an unrealistic concept at all. If they were that loyal to the Crown or fixated with being British why would they have applied? Good for them if they wanted an Irish passport for freedom...how ironic. Identity isn't fixed it can change.

Many do indeed see the benefits of being Irish their reasons are probably as simple as choice. Perhaps many liked being European too. That neutrality has been taken away from them now.

It is not impossible to have a United Ireland. Only for those that insist on looking backwards. To say it would be immediate or overnight is rediculous. What's happening now will happen again and again. As Northern Ireland should not be annexed it's a rediculous notion long term. It's as rediculous as thinking Ireland would be happy under British rule.

Many in Britain would gladly give it back. It is are Ireland that would be understandably concerned.

Decades of peace...really. Come on now that's just complete bollix. Just because we don't see reports on the news.
I don't think Boris or Arlene have a clue what to do..

The only way any of us know is to ask the people but they won't as they won't like the result.

@aquashiv I have no doubt you are an intelligent poster.
I can only assume you haven't rtft and put your posts down to ignorance.
Maybe you should call BJ share your views for a solution.
Giving Ireland back to the Irish is the only solution but I know that won't please many

What do you suggest they do with the 1000's of British loyalists in NI. Maybe ship them across the water with the DUP to the mainland. 🤣 It is about as feasible as your suggestion.
A huge part of the troubles were loyalist terrified of a united Ireland.
What makes you think they'd agree now.

So what are you suggesting? That the loyalists have their way even if it goes against the wishes of the majority in NI? We can see clearly where the demographics are heading.

Unionists have maintained for decades that NI must stay in the union because that's the preference of the majority. Once the demographic shifts the other way and a majority wants a United Ireland, you can't just change the rules and say "no that doesn't suit us."

You think there would be upheaval if NI voted for a United Ireland. Well imagine the upheaval if such a vote was to be ignored. What kind of message would that send?

If a United Ireland were to happen, I have no doubt that the Irish govt would do everything possible to ease unionist concerns, ensure their identity is recognised and give them proper representation. They would never suffer the kind of discrimination that nationalists had to deal with. Some hardliners may move to the UK and that's their choice, but I imagine the majority of unionists will just get on with their lives.

I believe United Ireland will happen eventually but not on the back of Brexit as tensions are high.
Regardless if @aquashiv believes there has been no peace, those from there know there has been massive changes.
Cross community settlements and relationships.
Decades of peace...reallyconfused. Come on now that's just complete bollix. Just because we don't see reports on the news

I agree that Brexit has done a lot of damage, and has possibly forced a decision that could have been put off for another 15-20 years. But if NI is dragged out of the EU against their will (especially if it's no deal), people have the right to ask for change. There is no way of pleasing everyone.

@24EmeraldShamrock and nationlism is a great blind fold. Your narrow sectarian view is exactly what fuels the hatred and prevents a permanent way out of the mess.
Yes and why do you think tensions are so high? Is it because they know how fragile the agreement is. How really terrified all sides are.
Britain's vote to leave Europe has shone a light on a highly charged situation of national identity that never went away just because those in "power" or some random on mumsnet decreed so.

Is it because they know how fragile the agreement is. How really terrified all sides are
Obviously the agreement is fragile considering the work needed to trust both sides would keep their word.
Any ceasefire is fragile
They did eventually trust and relatively move forward prior to Brexit opening up old wounds.
Have you even watched the documentary.

"Are you fron NI it was hardly fake peace when the younger generation have known peace and integration for decades."

I've lived in Belfast all my life (I'm 27), and while I agree things are much better now than when I was a kid, and it's like a different place since my mum was a kid, not all areas have achieved true peace yet.

*compared to when my mum was a kid

Excellent post @Voila212. Pretty much sums things up.

I've been following the series I spent many years living in Monaghan even my memory was scatty around the troubles.
This documentary is insightful and scary.
I grew up learning to dislike Margaret Thatcher the burning the mannequin of Maggie with the hate speech was very scary in episode 5.