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AIBU?

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Original poster

AIBU to ask you who started the Troubles in the North of Ireland?

591 replies

1FineDane · 11/09/2019 13:23

If you watch this new BBC documentary, what is your answer?
I know British people think the IRA started the whole shit, but this is a BBC documentary and fairly unbiased.

I hope you watch it to realise what history there is in Northern Ireland.

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0008c47/spotlight-spotlight-on-the-troubles-a-secret-history-episode-1

OP posts:
isabellerossignol · 17/09/2019 16:51

There is also some fantastic footage on YouTube of Belfast in the 1970s. Not necessarily troubles related footage but obviously with things as they were, that's hard to avoid. There is a particular road in the Ardoyne where almost every house was burnt out and there are people interviewed just standing on their doorsteps just looking at the shells of the other houses and looking bewildered at how it has all escalated. It's very sobering viewing.

DuchessDumbarton · 17/09/2019 16:53

And plenty of us in England have suffered hugely in the past too. Sometimes you just have to move on. Nothing done in the past was done by anyone on this thread

For an intelligent person, this really is a bit faux-naif, Xenia.

As I've said upthread, without owning the past, and recognising the hurt caused, it's very hard for people to move on.

Or, as someone wiser than I am said:
Forgiveness is solo, reconciliation is a joint venture.

With the aim of peace in NI, many wrongs were forgiven by all parties. And it behoves us to recognise how difficult that is for the people involved. Imagine sitting watching the release from prison of a man who has murdered a member of your family.
People in NI did just that.
We should respect it.

To invoke Godwin, I cannot imagine a situation where a German person might say to a group of Jews "plenty of us in Germany have suffered hugely in the past too. Sometimes you just have to move on. Nothing done in the past was done by anyone here".

The UK has voted for Brexit; I wish they hadn't but I will defend their right to do so.
Equally, there is an huge responsibility on you to brexit (verb) responsibly. You must take into account the re-opening of wounds in Northern Ireland because of the sacrifices that so many people there made in the name of peace.

Failing to do so, is a significant threat to that peace.

DuchessDumbarton · 17/09/2019 17:00

And, if I may add, the title of this thread is unhelpful.

The whole point of the peace process was, to stop apportioning blame ("who started it?"), to try to swallow harm done, to look at the pain caused by your "side", put it behind you and build joint processes that support mutual understanding.

The sin (yes, it's an old-fashioned concept; yes, I feel it's appropriate in the context) of Brexit is in failing to recognise that peace is an active, organic process.
Not a static one.
It's not as easy as saying "well, there are no active bombs so that's all fine, thank you very much".

Sending people back into their tribes ("brexiteers" "removers") stokes fear. And with fear comes violence.

Yadid · 17/09/2019 17:13

Is the next episode on tonight?

Bluesheep8 · 17/09/2019 17:15

voila212 I couldn't have put it better than that

Yadid · 17/09/2019 17:17

Found it. For anyone interested, it's on tonight (episode 2 of 7) at 9pm on BBC Four.

AryaStarkWolf · 17/09/2019 17:24

Episode 1 is on Youtube now aswell if anyone missed it

Yadid · 17/09/2019 17:37

I'm sort of dreading that the Irish will come out looking like villains tonight! I think someone mentioned that tonight shows footage of an IRA bomb. Oh well, I suppose, the whole history is both sides, ugly and all as that may be. Looking forward to watching.

ThatCurlyGirl · 17/09/2019 17:38

I just realised I only know about the troubles because my family are Irish - it wasn't even mentioned in school, not once. I'm 32.

My mum is late 60s and said they didn't learn anything about WW2 at her school so I guess recent events used to be more glossed over and not mentioned.

From chatting to my cousins who are aged 8-18 or so, they do learn about and discuss more recent historical events and current political debates as they progress through school, which is good especially to help them navigate complex issues now so much information is available to them online.

Yadid · 17/09/2019 17:39

Glad you guys in Ireland got to watch it on youtube. Btw, I was the OP, namechange....

ethelfleda · 17/09/2019 17:47

Thanks for starting the thread, OP.
We watched the first one on iPlayer and will watch the second tomorrow (I am recording it)

It was very a very emotive program. I didn’t actually realise just how complicated it was. I think we always thought it was ‘Catholics vs Protestants’ but it certainly wasn’t as black and white as that.

Yadid · 17/09/2019 17:51

As I said it was an education for me and I'm Irish, though I grew up in the 80's, so wouldn't have been alive at the time the first episode covered.

Durgasarrow · 17/09/2019 18:05

Wow, there are no squabbles at present between Vikings and Gaels. They are because there is a British presence in Ireland.

Yadid · 17/09/2019 18:12

It's interesting that the Vikings seemed to successfully integrate into Irish culture. I know they built a lot of our towns that are on rivers/estuaries e.g. Dublin, Waterford etc.

Yadid · 17/09/2019 18:15

I vaguely remember learning about them pillaging and plundering (when we were the land of saints and scholars and had a lot of religious chalices and stuff). I don't know whether they tootled back home in the main, or fell in love with an Irish damsel and stayed, but I never got the impression that they ever 'conquered' us as such. I think they were more the snatch and grab type haha.

Yadid · 17/09/2019 18:16

More or less, anyone in Ireland with a name beginning with Fitz is considered to be descended from the Vikings.

Yadid · 17/09/2019 18:19

That's the interesting thing I guess about the British. They never really integrated. Like they didn't come and settle organically. They came and conquered. And ruled. But never really married into the Irish etc. I think it comes from their superiority complex. We (Irish) would have been seen as inferior. Odd one.

samlovesdilys · 17/09/2019 18:20

Henry II led an 'invasion' at the request of Dermot (and the Pope)...he stayed for Christmas in Dublin along with his friends!!

Yadid · 17/09/2019 18:23

Who's Henry II when he's at home?

hazell42 · 17/09/2019 18:27

I think you are making a big assumption. A lot (most?) of British people acknowledge the mistakes made by the British and the injustice against the Irish Catholics

Yadid · 17/09/2019 18:35

What assumption would that be that I (?) we (?) am/are making?

Yadid · 17/09/2019 18:39

Btw to posters complaining (there have been a couple at least) that I used 'the North of Ireland', there was genuinely no thought given to the title, I just wrote and that's what came out. I can see now that it's maybe offensive by not calling it Northern Ireland, but it wasn't intended to be offensive. It just came out that way! I'm usually the one getting my knickers in a twist about distinguishing between the two countries, so I've no idea why it came out of my brain that way!

AgileLass · 17/09/2019 18:42

More or less, anyone in Ireland with a name beginning with Fitz is considered to be descended from the Vikings.

No, Fitz is Norman (fils)

Yadid · 17/09/2019 18:46

Sure it's not the vikings?

Yadid · 17/09/2019 18:47

Could well be the Normans btw - It's been 82 years lol........ Well, a long time since I studied the various invasions!