AIBU to ask you who started the Troubles in the North of Ireland?

[1FineDane]

If you watch this new BBC documentary, what is your answer?
I know British people think the IRA started the whole shit, but this is a BBC documentary and fairly unbiased.

I hope you watch it to realise what history there is in Northern Ireland.

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0008c47/spotlight-spotlight-on-the-troubles-a-secret-history-episode-1

Just watching episode 2 and Gerry Adams has featured. I was wondering where he was in episode 1

And please for the Love of all that's holy can you please realise the irony in you claiming that 'The Irish' hate the English, when you are actually the one who hates all 'The Irish'.

It bothers me immensely that the English (which should really be the British) are blamed and held responsible if it is a bad thing
The soldiers during the troubles were BRITISH soldiers and the government was the BRITISH government.

The Northern Ireland population originally mostly came from Scotland
The troubles spilled over onto mainland Britain and many innocent people with no direct involvement with the conflict were killed. I lived through those times.
Any documentary needs to be unbiased and stick to the facts rather than (as you are all doing on here) and blaming the English for everything.

Last census, I believe the highest population in Ireland apart from Irish is English people. A lot of those would be maybe retiring here

I'm sure a good chunk of the Population in West Cork is retired English folk

Angel in truly sorry you feel that way. Unfortunately there are nasty people in every country. Like I said before bullying is horrific and can leave many scars. Genuinely nobody was trying to make you feel bad in this thread. I know some Posters have said we should just move on and generally I agree but Brexit has brought a lot of things to the forefront. A lot of people are worried about the border and the impact there will be. Watching this documentary shows how bad things were and why it is so important that it never happens again and why people shouldn't forget. It shows how one incident leaves to another and how it can spiral out of control until there is total mayhem. Tensions are high right now so it's important we are reminded of that fact.
Yadid last night was good it discussed the Dublin monaghan bombing and the IRA bombing campaign in NI. At one stage there was a good chance of peace when the UK government tried to set up an NI government with moderate unionist and moderate nationalist. unfortunately the loyalist feared this would lead to a United Ireland because of the ROI government involvement. They striked against it and won. This led to the IRA bombing campaign in England. It really felt impossible at times and that was portrayed well in the show.

The troubles spilled over onto mainland Britain and many innocent people with no direct involvement with the conflict were killed.

What is the point you were making with this statement? There were hundreds of people killed in N Ireland who had nothing to do with the conflict either. Unless you count living in a particular place to be the same as being involved in a conflict.

17million, have you watched the show? I personally feel it isn't biased, it just stating facts. It shows documentation, video clips and interviews people from all sides involved. It discusses how one incident led to another. How things spiralled out of control.I
Also the majority of people who died during the Troubles were innocent people trying to just live their lives as best they could.

Looks like the OP has left the site.

@EmeraldShamrock I think the OP has name changed to Yadid

Just finished and watching 2 old men, one a protestant, one ex IRA I think, break down in tears, was pretty telling. I guess those people feel it was all in vain nowadays.

Have to say that if you've watched episode 1, episode 2 is good and I continue to say that it's unbiased and covers both sides equally - both the good and the bad on both sides. The two things that came out of this episode for me was that the English were not interested in negotiating and while the IRA maintained a ceasefire against the British, the British didn't attempt to withdraw. So that all ended in tears. The other striking thing was the emergence of Gerry Adams' name. As one interviewee put it, 'while they were talking about peace, they were preparing for war'.

Very interesting documentary. It's also worth noting that the bloodiest day of all the troubles were the Dublin and Monaghan bombings which happened simultaneously I think.
My aunt narrowly escaped the Dublin one. She worked in the Tax office, which if anyone knows Dublin, is beside Busárus. Her route home from work was up Talbot street usually, but she had a date that evening so didn't take her usual route home from work. If I recall correctly from her recollection the Dublin/Talbot Street bomb went off shortly after 5pm when a lot were leaving work.

Yup, I'm the OP Emerald.

They said actually in this episode that Gerry Adams refused to participate in the show. I wonder what he thinks of it now that he has seen it!

It also covered the fact that many of the strikers during the Ulster Workers strike were striking because they were intimidated into it, not because they were vehemently opposed to the Sunningdale agreement.

I don't think he cares Yadid, did anyone actually believe he wasn't involved. Yes Isabella I don't think many had a choice to not strike. Of course the British prime minister comments about the strike didn't help. I think he called them spongers.

Ye what was that about? I kinda got lost a bit and distracted in the bit about the Sunningdale thing and the strikers.

@Yadid Oh I missed that.

The British started it all. It goes back I've 800 years.

Over not I've

The Ulster Workers strike forced the breakdown of the Sunningdale agreement because to an extent it brought N Ireland to a standstill. So as I understand it, people have viewed it as a great victory for loyalist, or an indication that ordinary unionists had no intention of compromising in any way and were spoiling for a fight, depending on your viewpoint.

But in reality, a lot of the people who were on strike were striking because they feared for their safety if they didn't. So neither assessment is really an accurate reflection.

But then Harold Wilson called the strikers spongers and at that point people who might have been not that enthusiastic about the strike were furious at being maligned. So that didn't help the situation.

I remember a similar type of action was taken when I was a child, in protest at the Anglo Irish agreement. It was very exciting because we got a day off school because there was no electricity. And we had to boil all our water because there was no assurance that the water coming out of the taps had been properly treated. And my mum had to cook dinner on a camping stove and we ate it by candlelight because again, no electricity.

I think the greater significance of it all might have been lost on me...

The Sunningdale agreement was an attempt to introduce a power sharingassembly of sorts, while Westminster retained power over the important issues. Parties like the SDLP, UUP and Alliance, agreed to this, but the DUP, PUP etc teamed up, formed a council and managed to rig things so there was one anti sunningdale candidate in each area, so eventually 11/12 candidates elected were against it, thanks to split votes. They argued that that meant the aggrement had failed.

Loyalist paramilitaries that opposed the aggrement such as the UVF and UDA, had joined forced and formed the Ulster Army Council, as they were terrified this was a step towards a United Ireland (because, "no surrender").

Then the Ulster Workers Council, called a general strike, which lasted a fortnight. The electricity was shut off, roads were blocked etc.

Afaik at least, I'm going to watch ep 2 now while ds's dad (the orangeman) is here. I wonder who he thinks started the troubles, though asking could start an argument.

I can imagine isabelle that eating off a camping stove by candlelight would have been quite exciting as a child. Funny the way parents can make things fun that are normally scary to a child. My parents were like that in thunder storms. Consequently, I love thunder storms!

What's also stark for me is watching people literally running for their lives and there's one little clip of a girl maybe 10 running presumably towards home while you can hear a bomb going off. In Ireland, we never experienced that horror, so we have a very different psyche.

I really feel sorry for the people of Northern Ireland after watching two episodes. What a fucking nightmare to have to live through.

carving up the land more for every generation to have a plot and over farming it

That's pretty much what we were taught, along with a bit about the Home Rule movement. Despite "doing" the Tudors and the Reformation in some depth, Ireland was scarcely mentioned in that context.

The early years of "the Troubles" more or less coincided with my secondary education (1966-72), so they were news, not history. I can remember being appalled by the curfews, my shock at the conduct of the paras, and being horrified by Bloody Sunday. I still am, really - shooting live rounds at unarmed children as they fled, ffs? What were they on? And these are the soldiers that Johnny Fucking Mercer thinks should be exempt from prosecution.

I started watching the first of these documentaries and found it too distressing in parts. Some of it gave me the same visceral horror as I felt seeing it on the news in the 1960s.

Should be compulsory viewing for anyone who thinks Brexit is more important than the GFA though, including my MIL, whose solution to the border issue is that "We can all go back to being one country, like we used to be".

Yeah, I look forward to her explaining that one to the Dail.