To think we don’t need partners staying overnight in the post natal ward

[Mammylamb]

If on a shared ward it would have been my idea of a nightmare. The lack of privacy. A midwife bursting in when my boobs were out. Someone pushing against the curtain when I was getting my catheter removed. It was horrible enough when there were other women about. Never mind any random men

www.thesun.co.uk/fabulous/8981244/mum-debate-dads-stay-overnight-maternity-wards/?utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=fabulousfacebook080919&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1567937417

But how long is it going to take the NHS to provide sufficient extra HCAs to meet this need? Where will the funding come from and where else will cuts be made in order to fund this?

Personally I think it's unrealistic to believe that the NHS will fund this.

My first baby was in NICU and I was too unwell myself to really notice what was going on..2nd baby and I was the only 2nd time mum in our bay (though had never looked after a newborn baby) and is was basically told by the midwives to help the first time mums in our bay. Like wtf? If you can't provide staff and won't let partners stay you should not be expecting other patients to plug the gaps.

Unrealistic to expect the NHS to fund this?

This is literally what the NHS is for.

We don't expect relatives to plug the gaps on any other ward, why should they on the maternity ward?

Jealous I could say the same the same to you. If you having your partner staying in the same room as me and other woman causes us to suffer. Is it a case of you wanting other woman to suffer because you want the option of your partner staying ? No ones rights trump the other.

We don't expect relatives to plug the gaps on any other ward, why should they on the maternity ward?

Sadly, yes we do. My local hospital has volunteers go in to feed patients or to get food and drinks and generally assist patients in the day surgery wards. That's how bad it is.

And yes, this is what the NHS is there for. It's also there to provide cancer treatment, heart surgery, joint replacement surgery and many other things that are severely rationed.

We all want better funding for the NHS so that the best care and treatment is available but that isn't happening due to funding, so where should the cuts be made in order to fund extra HCAs?

*I still don't understand how anybody can argue for 24hr random men.

We need staff, lots more staff.

It's a bloody stupid argument we shouldn't be having.*

Totally this. I'm baffled. And so glad that men weren't allowed to stay when I had my children.

The fact that you think that you consider more HCAs a “middle ground” confirms my belief that a lot of the fathers staying people don’t actually want more help- they want specifically their partners to help. Which is a very different thing.

You're right, I did specifically want DH's help. I wanted the curtains closed for privacy (from both genders equally!) but with someone else having responsibility for DD so I could sleep. I also just wanted him there - the 48hr labour and EMCS were a huge shock and I found this presence containing in an overwhelming time.

This isn't more or less valid than another mother wanting/needing a male only space . There must be a way to provide both, especially for women who have experienced abuse/trauma. Those paid for private rooms might be better used by being allocated for free by midwives, for example.

Absolutely not. There should never be men on a communal ward overnight. Private rooms then fine.

I wasn't allowed my DH to stay when I had DS and I had a CS and had a catheter in all night.

I don't think men should automatically be banned. Some women would be grateful of the support, particularly if they've had a traumatic birth. Maybe if they're considerate then they could stay but the staff would have to speak up if someone was noisy or rude or put them in a side room perhaps. There's nothing worse than being a tired; first time mum on your own overnight.

The fact that you think that you consider more HCAs a “middle ground” confirms my belief that a lot of the fathers staying people don’t actually want more help- they want specifically their partners to help. Which is a very different thing.
I needed dh there because I was too ill to look after my babies in hospital, when we came home - he was the one who knew what to do and had to do it while I recovered.

I still don't understand how anybody can argue for 24hr random men.

Many women have explained. You may not agree with them but I'm not sure why you are struggling to understand their point of view.

I think partners should be able to stay but I have read and understand why some women are against this.

See- I suppose that’s where I am. I am prepared to do anything I can to get more help for post partum women. I am not prepared to do anything -and would actively resist

• men being allowed to stay over on a post natal ward.

Obviously there would have to be exceptions. But they would have to be approved by medical people.

I'm due to be induced this week and I'm dreading the post natal stay. I'm really hoping I don't need to stay overnight. My preference would be for my partner to go home at night for a full nights sleep so he can care for us and our 2 other children.

However, I may want him to be there because of other men being there. As a multiple rape and sexual assault survivor I'm really worried about this. It was bad enough in the day last time establishing feeding, getting dressed and having my stitches checked because I had various men opening the curtain! One of these occasions caused me to have a panic attack due to having ptsd. My eldest was conceived by rape so it was a very difficult time. Then you get some midwives throwing open your curtains because they think it's best for you! That thin curtain is the only kind of privacy we have!

People say "oh they're not looking they're too busy with their partner and baby" but the fact is some are just awful. Sometimes they're awful to their partners, other patients and the staff. One of my friends had a man making inappropriate comments about her breasts when his wife was showering. He opened her curtain to do so and nobody came with the buzzer so she had to scream for help. By which time he'd cowardly fucked off and she was told off for being silly!!

Berta maybe the partners should get DBS checks before they are allowed to stay overnight . Then the criminals wouldn’t have access to other people’s babies and vulnerable woman could sleep safe and be allowed to close their curtains for privacy .

Bit pointless. All a DBS check does is check for convictions. If they've never been caught or convicted it ms useless.

I wouldn’t say DBS checks are useless or they wouldn’t use them in schools , hospitals and nursery all over the country. Yes they would only stop the ones already convicted but that would stop a lot of them .

The trouble with subjects like this is it turn into discussing men are a threat or not. The chances are vanishingly small that they are a threat. The issue is that they make other women feel uncomfortable and unhappy. So more HCAs do they arenm’t needed.

The way I see it, You want your Husband/Partner to stay? PAY for private health care, you will have your own room and can do WHATEVER you want! ☺️

BertrandRussell

I did want my partner there. Because he is someone I trust.

He was the one to yell at the midwife to take me seriously when she thought I was being a drama queen in labour. He was the one that stood up for me . He was the one that held the baby before me because I was almost unconscious. He was there and saw how I lost so much blood.

He was there when the medical team attended to my baby. When he turned to attend to me they lost my babies records and apgar scores and he was there fighting to find it. We still haven’t.

He was there when the midwife apologised for treating me so poorly while I was in labour. He was there when the baby came out and when they were cutting the chord straight after while I had asked for them to wait for few minutes, and was able to ask them to wait.

He was there when I couldn’t feed and then a midwife came squeezing my breasts as if I was an animal to extract food for my baby.. and when I screamed she kissed her teeth and told me to be quiet. So he took over and extracted my milk as gently as he could.

He took over and tried to calm me down and let me know I was in safe hands. And so wanted him to be there..

And just like he was there for all those things, for me and the baby, I wasn’t prepared to meet new faces and trust them with me and my babies life just because someone said I should.

I had a traumatizing labour experience specifically due to the horrendous communication with the midwives and their lack of empathy towards me.. and the loss of blood and tearing and so on.,

And the only person I refer back to now for emotional support when I feel vulnerable about it all is him. And that’s why I managed to help myself through anxiety,

He isn’t the perfect partner and we have many challenges.. but he did step up because he needed to. I needed to make sure My baby is in safe hands.. and I was too.. and I needed the care and support which wasn’t available.

I KNEW he would be there for me if something happens.. I knew he would be there for the baby to prevent something from happening as he was poorly...

So yes, I prefer my partner and no apology for that.

But I can put on my big girl pants and understand this might infringe on other women and discuss a compromise solution that works for different people.

@DecomposingComposers

That's an argument that can be used to deny any improvement in the public sector and it smacks of emotional blackmail.

There people would not need to be any cuts to anything else anyway as bad care is actually very expensive. I'm talking about the cost in readmissions, added pressure on community midwives and negligence compensation.

@HJWT

It's a shame giving birth privately is so expensive. If it was a few hundred pounds rather than thousands I think a lot of us would snap it up. I used to wonder why on earth people paid to have a private birth but now I completely understand why.

The idea of having my partner able stay with me if needed, midwives who give a shit, a private room and luxuries like an en suite... it sounds like a dream. Even if he couldn't stay, having a private room, being away from all the other mums and having HCP who want to help and actually do... amazing.

So I guess to sum it up this is a difficult debate between women who are feeling sexually vulnerable to have men there and those who feel medically and physically and emotionally vulnerable to not have their partner there tending to their needs and their babies needs.

Women shouldn’t feel vulnerable while recovering and so the solution should reflect all this

Depends what you mean by “sexually vulnerable”. I have never been raped or sexually assaulted and I do not generally feel threatened by men. I just don’t want them in a post natal ward where I want privacy and dignity.

I honest cannot believe this is even a discussion. Hospital should not be allowing partners (male or female but specifically male) to stay overnight on PN wards.

If women are staying in hospital for a number of days after giving birth, it is because they are unwell and therefore they should be looked after by doctors and nurses and HCA's not their husbands.

During that time their babies should stay with them being looked after by the mum and dad during the day and ideally nursery care at nights or by midwifes helping mums to feed etc.

The answer to this is putting pressure on government and nhs to fund PN wards appropriately so that this can happen and not letting random (your husband to me is a random man) men sleep next to ill and vulnerable women.

@yomommasmomma

Exactly!

Not to me mention that is some cases we're leaving care to abusive partners.

There people would not need to be any cuts to anything else anyway as bad care is actually very expensive. I'm talking about the cost in readmissions, added pressure on community midwives and negligence compensation.

Do you have figures for this? Only, in the scheme of things I don't think HCAs particularly make a big impact on awards given for medical negligence, nor readmissions. In this case we are talking about HCAs being used to fill the gaps currently being filled by partners - getting food and drinking, helping to the toilet, changing baby etc. How do you think emoting more HCAs is going to save sufficient costs to prevent cuts elsewhere?

And you can say it's emotional blackmail but it isn't. The health service budget is finite. Increase costs in one area and you decrease them in another. Many of our trusts are currently in deficit - honestly do you think they are about to find thousands of pounds to employ more HCAs just for post natal wards?

It's not emotional blackmail, it's realism.