To think we don’t need partners staying overnight in the post natal ward

[Mammylamb]

If on a shared ward it would have been my idea of a nightmare. The lack of privacy. A midwife bursting in when my boobs were out. Someone pushing against the curtain when I was getting my catheter removed. It was horrible enough when there were other women about. Never mind any random men

www.thesun.co.uk/fabulous/8981244/mum-debate-dads-stay-overnight-maternity-wards/?utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=fabulousfacebook080919&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1567937417

wtaf, DoctorAllcome? I am honestly trying to work out what on earth it is that you're saying here. I'm not poking you with a stick.

At the moment, some hospitals have this arrangement:

• partners can stay 24/7
• other visitors have restricted visiting hours

Other hospitals have this arrangement:

• partners can stay all day but have to go home at night
• other visitors have restricted visiting hours.

I am saying that the second setup is much better. The first setup should not be used to make up for staffing shortages.

What is it that you're saying?

I'm struggling to see how some people don't think they need their partners
Well that would have been me. He'd have just been sat there with nothing to do, bored out of his mind. I wasn't traumatised in the slightest and didn't need any help with the baby.

The answer is rooms for the mothers with partners who want to stay and a single sex communal ward for the ones that don't.

There were many rooms free in my hospital but the midwives were against us using them for some reason... I wanted privacy as I was so ill and felt so guilty for keeping everyone awake, but they just refused to move us. Just said they prefer to keep everyone on the ward?!

My friend had her baby in a hospital that only has rooms. Worked much better and gave everyone the privacy they needed.

More midwives will not completely help the situation as some women need the emotional support of their partners/family, especially after a traumatic birth. Like someone said further down the thread, chucking dads out moments after their baby is born because it's not visiting hours is barbaric to both mum and baby.

My first daughter died. I am currently ttc her sibling but scared of pregnancy/ birth/ that the next baby will die unexpectedly too. I absolutely need my DH there on the postnatal ward and will only choose a hospital where this is possible. So there are more complicated reasons why people want their DPs to stay.....

@Robs20

It’s not sexism, it’s the facts. Women in a maternity unit are vulnerable. They are at higher risk than usual from predatory or unsavoury men. Even if every single male visitor in an 8-bed bay was a respectful sort who wouldn’t dream of staring, how are all 8 women to know that? It puts the onus on vulnerable women to swallow their fear and humiliation when they should be entitled to feel safe and comfortable. It’s wrong.

All the posters saying that overnight stays should be allowed because their partner was an invaluable support to them: that’s great for you individually. Not great for all women who have no choice but to be there at one of the most vulnerable times of their lives.

I didn't need an overnight stay, but if I did, who was going to look after the baby at night? Who was going to change his nappies? Certainly not me - I had just given birth after 24 hours of labour and nearly 40 hours without sleep. My job at the time was to Rest and Sleep. Therefore, YABU. There's absolutely no way I would have lifted a finger to do anything but feed. For the first few weeks, everything else was my partner's job. And if that meant staying with me in hospital to do his job as a parent, so be it.

I’m sorry, but your rationale is rife with sexism.

It is not sexism to point out things that women have experienced. There have been dozens of threads on mumsnet over the years about this topic and I initially thought that partners on the ward was a great idea because my postnatal experience was so horrific and I was terrified every moments that he wasn't there. But having read other women's experiences I came to change my mind. I've read of women being verbally abused by strange men for having a crying baby, having men comment on their breasts, tell them they are disgusting for bleeding heavily, all sorts of sexist behaviour. But pointing that out is somehow sexist?

It’s a crap idea born of a privileged world view seeking to rectify issues caused by dire understaffing on maternity wards.

No, you are simply prioritising one group of women those without partners, or who have been assaulted, etc over another group - those, who have a partner, but are struggling to care for a baby after a traumatic birth, c section, etc!

Devils Advocate . .

New born babies don't actually need to be breast fed, and a father is a parent too.

What right do mothers have to spend the night with their babies?

Why can't mothers be made to sleep on another ward, so that new fathers can get time to bond with their new baby?

No worries about silly little men, unable to control their predatory behaviour, I mean obviously every single man is a potential rapist aren't they. But since all the vulnerable new mothers would be safely tucked up in a separate ward then there wouldn't be any issues regarding that.

Problem solved!

The reality is the NHS is not going to magic up more nurses and midwives - it’s taking a privileged view to think they will!

Gosh, I despair at the selfishness on here sometimes. Not everyone is a happy mummy whose partner is loving and kind. Many women are in abusive relationships, many women have been sexually assaulted, many women just want some peace and quiet.

I have 2 DC, both born in hospital with overnight stays. DC1 was born after a 36 hour induction and we stayed for 3 nights because he was ill. I couldn’t lean over to pick him up so had to get out of bed every time he cried. I was so exhausted that I collapsed from low blood sugar when I stood to put him back in his bassinet after feeding him and changing his nappy. At my requested debrief I was told that both he and I had been put at risk by the inadequate staff levels. I just needed someone to pass me the baby and put him back afterwards. That could have been done by my husband but it was right that he wasn’t there. The problem was the lack of staff, not the lack of him.

@Robs20

No, you are simply prioritising one group of women those without partners, or who have been assaulted, etc over another group - those, who have a partner, but are struggling to care for a baby after a traumatic birth, c section, etc!

I've been in that second group twice. The first time was okay because I was in a hospital with just about enough staff cover on the postnatal ward. (This was an NHS hospital within the last five years, it's not fantasy land.) The second time there weren't and it was really really hard and painful getting out of bed myself to lift and care for my baby.

Would it have been a lot easier for me if my husband could have stayed? Yes, probably. But I still don't want a system with partners staying 24/7, because while it would help me there are a lot of other women it wouldn't help and would make the stay even worse for. I want a system where there are more staff.

It is really worrying that hospitals are relying on partners to provide actual nursing care some of the time. It seems like only a matter of time before there's some awful serious incident as a result of putting some sleep-deprived, unqualified new father in that position.

I am sitting on the fence here

This is one of the most vulnerable time for a woman, so yes I don’t think men should be allowed to stay over night. You are scared, tired and in pain and you do not need to worry about a man being near by potentially upsetting you

On the other hand, some women desperately need help as there isn’t enough staff to do it.

We need more staff, not outsourcing the care to husbands

But we aren’t found to get it.

@ThomasRichard it's rather unkind to call selfish on people who were struggling during one of the most difficult experiences of their lives. Maybe you are a stronger person than me. I'm OK with that. But I had nothing left to give at the time to consider the needs of others and it's not because I don't care in general. That was just the situation. And I didn't need my husband only as a pair of hands but as an emotional support and an advocate. Let's not pretend like there's an easy answer here where people have competing needs.

I had 2 c sections and it never crossed my mind that my partner should stay afterwards. And I was in for 5 then 4 nights. Tbh I enjoyed the peace. I'd have hated sharing a space/toilet/shower with other people's dp's and wouldn't want to inflict that on other women either. Obviously in a private room it's not an issue but not on shared wards.

Speaking from experience. My DS is a week old today. I labourers for 34 hours before having a C section. I had to stay on the ward for 2 nights.

My DH did not stay with me, he too has been up for close to 48 hours and he needed rest. I was in a bay with 4 beds, the other three women all had their partners with them.

It was unbearable, there was no social etiquette at all. The men ALL snored, the couple's would stay up chatting till god knows when, I had to keep my curtain virtually closed as I had soaked through my PJs and had no bottoms on bar my net knickers.

I felt so uncomfortable the second night that I just went and sat in the mother and baby room all night. In a chair, with my baby on me. As I couldn't bare to be in the room any longer.

I had just had a C section and the midwives were amazing, they helped lift baby, change baby and help me out of bed. Pour me drinks and look after me when I was unable too.

I would also like to add, the men on the ward helped themselves to all.of the food and drinks provided for the women only and not once in my 48 hour stay did I hear or see the father actively help with the baby.

No to partners. Leave at 9, come back at 9 in the morning.

It’s not selfish to wish you had appropriate support from your partner when you’re in a very difficult situation. Goodness knows I did! It definitely is selfish to say outside that experience that because you want your partner there it should be the rule and damn every other woman in the unit.

Do not call women selfish for needing help from a partner. Ever. You don't have the right.

I think it's incredibly patronising for posters to talk for victims of sexual assault or abuse. It is not your struggle, so stop hijacking it to make your own preferences sound more important. If you just want more sleep and don't like other women's men, admit that. Don't hijack someone else's struggle under the guise of coming across as a warrior for women.

Plenty of women who have faced assault have anxiety and depression. Having their partner there would have really helped in their post-partum recovery. It certainly would have helped me- my partner has been paramount to my mental recovery.

Of course, if a woman has faced that and would prefer a men-free ward, that's a valid reason and totally understandable. But harping on about needing more sleep is a petty point. And privacy? So what do you do all day when the partners are there? Hide behind your curtain for 10 hours?

Come on. A lot of posters are embellishing their reasons to remain on-trend with men-hating. Think outside the box and at least substantiate your opinion with experiences you have faced. Not fictional ones you've been blessed not to happen to you.

Basically none of us are right because we've all had our own experiences and our feelings are not comparable.
Someone suggested people who want their partners there should go private. Or how about woman who seem to be vulnerable and hate men should pay that private fee. Why are the people who are ok with other men penalised?
I don't see why being on a ward suddenly means you are at risk of being attacked or abused or whatever. Close the curtain.
Hospitals are shit. When I was in there was a rough as fuck woman in the ward who I was sure would beat any one of us up if we looked at her the "wrong" way. I was far more scared of her than anyone else that ventured onto the ward.
And to the idiot talking about men feeding formula to babies. Oh fuck off. Even on bottles of formula it states breastmilk is better and therefore breatfeeding shoukd always be supported. The baby has been inside the mother's tummy for 9 months...it's not about the mother or father it's about the baby feeling safe and secure and it's the mother it will feel that with.

If you're talking about paying for a private room to accommodate your needs, whichever side of the debate you fall on, the only people being penalised are the poor.

I think it's incredibly patronising for posters to talk for victims of sexual assault or abuse. It is not your struggle, so stop hijacking it to make your own preferences sound more important.

Why are you assuming women are speaking for others? So very many women have been victims of domestic or sexual assault, those posters probably ARE referencing themselves, they just aren't going into the gory details for your benefit.

Single sex accomodation is held up as the gold standard in hospitals, politicials PROMISE to make it happen in manifestos and newspapers report on hospital trusts who don't deliver. Why is this no longer relevant when women are having babies?

Completely agree @ThomasRichard & @53rdWay.

It is such a pointless argument. The reality is that outside the Mumsnet vacuum a majority of women want their partners there.
The maternity wards are a shit show and so it benefits the NHS for the partners to cover the massive gaps that are in the service.

It's not going to change.