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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Brexit: how scared should we be?

316 replies

staydazzling · 09/09/2019 10:36

Theres been worries about a lot, all valid reasons medical suppliers, food unrest. People stockpiling, and now that photo on twitter about the back pack with supplies & paperwork. do we need to be prepared for the real threat of some impending civil war? how scared do we need to be?

OP posts:
PhilSwagielka · 10/09/2019 10:33

My biggest fear is not being able to get my meds. I have depression/BPD and I''m on Sertraline. It's not as nasty as Venlafaxine when it comes to withdrawals, but if I go without for more than 2 days I get unstable and more likely to have suicidal thoughts or hurt myself. I've not self-harmed in ages and I don't want to go back to it.

What I hate is when Brexiters laugh at me for being worried. I can't help being mentally ill. I'm sure they think I'm a stupid snowflake or whatever but I tried being strong and going without pills, and it ended badly. I've already had one suicide attempt this year and I don't want to end up in that place again.

bellinisurge · 10/09/2019 10:35

Keep well @PhilSwagielka and in touch with health professionals.

Ohflippineck · 10/09/2019 10:39

There’ll be an initial ‘temporary’ disruption to certain foods, certain medicines, certain workers, certain goods. For some people that ‘temporary’ disruption will be life changing. Could push them into poverty, mean they can’t access their life preserving medicines, can’t tecruit staff so their businesses are unable to function. For others, the purse strings will certainly need to be pulled tighter and insecurity, uncertainty and anxiety will continue for years as we try to find a new equilibrium in an increasingly competitive world. It will be a mixed bag of implications more or less affecting the population much as it does now. Those at the bottom will be hardest hit. Ironically, of course many of whom will have voted for it, not realising what the negative, long term implications would be.
Grim.

What I really worry about though is the slow, steady decline and probably almost imperceptible descent into a poorer, less secure society, with the disadvantaged even more so, vulnerable groups exposed and a general cynicism, fear and suspicion of the ‘other’ . In such circumstances, suffering populations seek a group to blame and true to history going back as far as you choose, scapegoats will be found this time too.
“We” have voted to give ourselves a much bleaker future, which is astonishing. A PP confidently states that as one of the worlds most affluent nations, we can afford to slip a few places. Just think about that for a moment, really think about it. This dream we were sold has some become an embracing of the idea that our lives will be diminished. People are prepared to accept that rather than concede that they made a mistake. Astonishing.

For a true picture of where our negotiations stand, Nathalie Loiseau interview on the Today programme this morning is worth a listen. The Rise of the Nazi’s worth a watch for a picture of one of the nation’s possible destinations.

It’s all so damned sad.

goose1964 · 10/09/2019 10:39

I can see a stroke coming on, most of the meds I need to keep my hypertension under control (and it takes a combination) are on the list. I'm scared now. I've tried diet and exercise, before some holier than thou person put me down, and it didn't work. It took years to find a combination that works

PhilSwagielka · 10/09/2019 10:43

I'm having therapy. Luckily I'm a lot more stable. But there is that fear. I'm just glad my brother isn't having chemo anymore either.

NB: this isn't me being manipulative and saying I'll top myself if no deal happens. This is me being honest about what effect lack of antidepressants will have on me. I don't get why it's so funny either.

Outnumberedmumof4 · 10/09/2019 10:44

Personally I don’t think we have anything to fear and I voted remain.

Where I live (SW), people feel very detached from all the Brexit talk in Westminster. I think it’s because a lot of the people who worry about Brexit rightly or wrongly appear to be the very highly educated high-fliers who live in the Home Counties. The people I know aren’t wealthy high-fliers. They’re normal average people on average or below salaries- hairdressers, plumbers, shop workers etc so when they see that most of the people on tv who are worrying about it are the wealthier middle classes, they seem to think ‘ah well, good riddance!’.

Not sure if I’ve explained that very well but there we go

Bluntness100 · 10/09/2019 10:49

If they want to continue making money from selling to us, they will make this quick

This is just ludicrous and shows the level of misunderstanding and why the country should never have been asked.

Do you know how long it takes to register a substance to be imported in normal times?. It's months. You actually have to send every ingredient in for sampling. Every single importer needs to do it. The back log will be enormous. The cost per substance is in the region of 15k. The level of registration depends on the volumes of product being imported,There is no such thing as make it quick for goodness sake.

We are at day one, everything has to start again. Every product registered with the eu you could import, it's been registered as products were sold. Now every single thing needs to be registered from scratch.

And as for stock piling. Where is all this stock piling going to be stored? Warehousing space is finite. From nappies, to raw ingredients, to oil products to medication. There is only so much that can be stored.

Again I ask, why do you think thr government is refusing to release the information on what is going to occur? Because it's good news and they are masochists?

TabbyMumz · 10/09/2019 10:50

Surely the hospital will have arranged a stockpile?”

"What have we come to when leavers are posting stuff like this"

What even does this comment mean. Surely they do have a stockpile?

PhilSwagielka · 10/09/2019 10:50

Can confirm, I've translated documents that deal with medication sampling. Everything needs to be tested.

bellinisurge · 10/09/2019 10:50

Glad things are going in the right direction for you @PhilSwagielka . Some people are just ignorant twats if they are laughing at this.

PhilSwagielka · 10/09/2019 10:53

When I've posted about worrying about meds shortages on Facebook, I get the Laugh react. I don't get why it's so funny.

Ohflippineck · 10/09/2019 10:53

Outnumberedmumof4

“ The people I know aren’t wealthy high-fliers. They’re normal average people on average or below salaries- hairdressers, plumbers, shop workers etc so when they see that most of the people on tv who are worrying about it are the wealthier middle classes, they seem to think ‘ah well, good riddance!’. “

Unfortunately some of the very people who may be hit hardest. Who’s going to go to the hairdressers or shop for anything other than essentials when the economy is in recession, their house prices are tumbling, their kids can’t find anywhere to live at all because house-building will stall and they fear for their jobs?
The high-earning, high fliers will be cushioned.

Ohflippineck · 10/09/2019 10:55

PhilSwagielka

“When I've posted about worrying about meds shortages on Facebook, I get the Laugh react. I don't get why it's so funny.“

It isn’t Phil. Anyone who laughs is moronic.

TabbyMumz · 10/09/2019 10:55

goose1964

I can see a stroke coming on, most of the meds I need to keep my hypertension under control (and it takes a combination) are on the list.

Hypertension is a really common medical ailment. People all round the world are on medication for it. What makes you think your gp wont be able to prescribe an alternative? What list are you even referring to?

Bluntness100 · 10/09/2019 10:56

Surely they do have a stockpile?

And surely you understand logistical complexity. Like they can only manufacture so much at once to sell. That hospitals only have a certain amount of storage space. What are you under the impression they have all acres of storage available to them? That manufactures have been buying new plants to increase production to fulfill all these orders?

They have increased the stock of body bags because of the impacts.. This is a fact. The waiting lists on the nhs will increase hugelY, as many doctors and nurses will need to leave or will wish to. They will need to limit medical supplies to make it last.

This isn't a game. There is no mythical warehouses that contain months and months of every medication. There is no mythical you can all stay if we crash out. There is no mythical you must all stay. It's not pretend. It's real.

Bluntness100 · 10/09/2019 11:06

What makes you think your gp wont be able to prescribe an alternative

What alternative? One that's manufactured in the U.K.?

Let's make it simple.

Stock build for three months max, it's all you could get. It's all the space you have to store. It takes six months to a year to register a product.

What alternative is going to fill the gap? Hope and a prayer?

And warehousing space. What do you store? Medication? Oil products to keep drivers on the roads to deliver it? Basic food stuffs?

We are not self sufficient. We trade with the world on eu terms. Without those we start from scratch. Ground zero. We predominantly export services. Goods are our predominant import. We are not self sufficient. It will take us years to be self sufficient. We don't have the infrastructure. Nothing will work for at least two years.

Again, and I keep asking it. Why if the government wishes no deal, are they saying it's not in the public's interests to know rhe impacts. Think about that.

serenoa · 10/09/2019 11:07

Do you think this should be happening in a developed country in the 21st century?

I take Evorel Sequi to treat osteoporosis. It runs in my family, my mother and two of my four sisters were crippled by it and I was diagnosed with it part way through the menopause, aged 48. There are four HRT products licensed to treat osteoporosis in this country, only one of which is suitable for me as it is the only one containing a progestogen, needed to help maintain womb health as I have not had a hysterectomy. Last week my usual pharmacy was unable to fill my repeat prescription and did not know when they would be able to, so I paid £81 online for 12 weeks supply.

On checking where I might be able to buy my next supply, I phoned around my local pharmacies. None of them had the product in stock and or knew when they would be getting any. A thorough search online revealed that none of the UK-based regulated pharmacies had any either, including the one where I had bought mine which had been imported from Germany. At several of them I was able to register an email address to notify me when they had stock again, which I did.

Do you think this is acceptable? Do you prefer to believe the government's assurances that there are/will be adequate medical supplies for all the population? If your answer is 'yes' you're deluding yourself – the nightmare has already been here for several months.

Don't talk to me about bisphosphonates. Apart from the facts that they're only available for four years' treatment, and no reputable doctor would prescribe them in my medical circumstances, the possible consequences are appalling. First the rare but diabolical side effect of the 'match girl's disease' phossy jaw. Google it if you've never heard of it. Second, a friend of mine, a tenured university professor in the USA, was walking across her campus to her office when her left femur suddenly snapped. She had been taking alendronate for two years. Although she didn't have any history of bone problems, the bisphosphonate drug had prevented bone renewal, instead it purports to strengthen bones by altering the bone microstructure. Her fracture never healed, in trying to pin and plate it her surgeons only caused more damage by the bone splintering in response to having pins inserted. After two years in a wheelchair in severe pain, unable to work or even think clearly, she ended her own life.

If you believe the Brexiteers' assurances about medical supplies, then you should believe their promises about adequate food supplies. Michael Gove actually said that there would always be an adequate food supply; he definitely did not say that it might not be what you and your family actually want to eat. Neither did he say anything about adequate supplies for those people on restricted diets for medical conditions.

Am I scared? Scared doesn't begin to describe my worries. Both Dominic Raab and Jacob Rees-Mogg have said that temporary difficulties in getting medical and food supplies are only 'a bump in the road ahead', a 'sacrifice worth making'. This was particularly grotesque coming from Rees-Mogg who makes money investing in companies that produce HRT and other medical products.

I wrote to both of them making the point that my health, my life, isn't a 'bump in the road', even less a 'sacrifice' for anyone to make. They have no right. As members of the government their first obligation is to protect the wellbeing and safety of the whole population, not just those who can afford to avoid the consequences of their actions. I haven't had an acknowledgment, never mind a proper response.

Are you worried? If not, you should be. You should also be angry that this government dares treat you with such disregard, such contempt. For a decade now we women have borne 86% of the consequences of austerity. That's not enough suffering for these Tories, there's more to come.

Tory: an old Irish word originally meaning a highwayman, now a criminal or wanted man. How apt.

dirtyrottenscoundrel · 10/09/2019 11:11

Not scared in the slightest.
Getting very bored of the scaremongering too.

HerSymphonyAndSong · 10/09/2019 11:12

“Surely the hospital will have arranged a stockpile?”

"What have we come to when leavers are posting stuff like this"

What even does this comment mean. Surely they do have a stockpile?”

See bluntness’s post for a clear response, but can you not see how within three years leavers going from “easiest deal in history!” and “sunlit uplands” to “surely hospitals are stockpiling meds” and “food shortages are good for the obesity crisis” shows how badly the leave camp missold brexit to leave voters

TabbyMumz · 10/09/2019 11:22

Bluntness...you have set yourself up as some sort of expert on this. You are no more expert or knowledheable on this than the rest of us. You do not know that there are more body bags....that's just ridiculous. You do not know how much medication hospitals store. I should imagine hospitals and pharmacists store loads anyhow. Pharmacists need to make a living, do you really think they haven't been planning?

Bluntness100 · 10/09/2019 11:22

Getting very bored of the scaremongering too.

Ok, then can you explain why the government is stating it's not in the public's interests to release their own dossier on what will occur I. The event of no deal? If you think it's just scaremongering why do you feel the government doesn't wish to let the public know the good news that it is?

TabbyMumz · 10/09/2019 11:25

See bluntness’s post for a clear response, but can you not see how within three years leavers going from “easiest deal in history!” and “sunlit uplands” to “surely hospitals are stockpiling meds” and “food shortages are good for the obesity crisis” shows how badly the leave camp missold brexit to leave
Not at all as I think there will be stockpiles

TabbyMumz · 10/09/2019 11:32

f you think it's just scaremongering why do you feel the government doesn't wish to let the public know the good news that it is.

Because Joe public doesn't need to know. The Government will have deals and plans in place as backup. I dont feel I need to know what they are. I dont think you need to know what they are. I think you are scaremongering too much.

Frequency · 10/09/2019 11:33

Civil war is unlikely but given that the country lost their collective shit when KFC ran out of chicken civil unrest when food and medicine shortages hit are almost certain and if we leave without a deal there will be shortages.

I believe the government have a stockpile of medicines. I know asthma medication in our region has been rationed for a while now. I assume that's to do with stockpiling by the chemists and government. I don't think people will die because of a shortage of meds (although insulin might be harder to get as it has a relatively short shelf life). I think there's enough stock to see most people through until we sort out trading/borders etc.

I think riots and looting are almost inevitable but as long as you don't live in a big city or stay away from the shops if you do you should be fine. The biggest impact will be on the first few weeks, imo. After that fiiod and medicine supply will steady out but prices will go up, jobs will be lost people will be poorer and more miserable and it will still be the fault if the remainers for not believing hard enough in the magic unicorns.

Bluntness100 · 10/09/2019 11:35

You're missing the point. There are stock piles. That's not in dispute.

It's the volume of those stock piles versus how long we need told them for. That's where the gap is.

And has no one got an answer for why the government feels "it's not in the public's interest" to publish what is going to occur, from their own dossier, gleaned from months of working with critical companies, if it would put the "scaremongering" to bed and give everyone a comfort level?

When Teresa May was in the chair, then it was understandable, she didn't intend to do no deal. So she wanted to avoid the panic and what would come from that,

But if Boris wants it, then why won't he release it either? Why did each opposition leader get signed up to the official secrets act to be told. Why did they walk out one by one and say it's terrifying? Why has a motion been passed now to force the government to release it? And why are the government still saying it's not in the public's interests?

Surely someone who thinks it's all good, has an answer? Anyone?