To think I've forgotten how to interact with other women.

[downbutnotout2018]

I've just been to DDs friends kids party. A sea of women all chatting away (I am a 41 year old female myself).

They were all in little cliques and I couldn't face trying to get into one. No one invited me in either. I had a very quick conversation with one woman and that was it, before she wandered off to speak with a group of others.

I work in a fairly male dominated environment and think I am just more familiar with interacting with men. They talk more loudly and slowly and deliberately (generalisation I know) and I can follow their topics of conversation more easily. They are not bitchy.

I ended up striking up a conversation with one of the dad's whose wife and I are organising an event with. a group of 3 mum's (who had previously ignored me completely) now looked over and gave me awful deadly looks like I was trying to chat him up or something (I genuinely had no interest whatsoever and was just trying to kill time).

AIBU in thinking I have forgotten how to interact with women or is this just a particularly carry group of women?

Some have said I'm participating in my own exclusion whilst simultaneously calling me a mysogonist. Err right

Blighter I'm with you!

“ I have found my life a lot less complicated since I left most females behind. Those cliques are really awful”
Blimey. And you on Mumsnet!

Ugh, giveaway overuse of the word "females" there. A very specific type of person uses the word females, unless of course you're Martin Goodman.

I avoid too much interaction with women op 😁 really, you're not really missing out on much.

Holy fuck. No wonder the patriarchy still has its stronghold if women still hold this view of themselves.

And "females"? I don't know any women who refer to themselves in this way.

Blimey. And you on Mumsnet!

Maybe the OP should have found a predominantly male forum to post on. They might type more slowly and loudly. Their topics of discussion would probably be easier to follow too.

happycamper11

That’s what leads me to believe that there’s something about the way OP is coming across in person that is leaving people cold and turning them off her. She mentioned the hearing issues and finding it easier to follow conversations with men and then snapped when I tried to expand on it. Either she’s being deliberately goady/trying to start an argument for her own purposes, or she is unable to have normal conversations without taking offence and going off in a huff over very minor things she perceives to be digs. I don’t think many women would last long trying to chat to OP before she felt affronted by something they said or did and that shows.

But sadly she’s not ready to hear that, or able to. So she will continue to place the blame on everyone else for being cliquey, shallow, whatever, rather than take an honest look at her own actions and part in her social struggles. I guess it’s hard to admit even to yourself the problem is sometimes you not everyone else. But it’s worth doing if you want to see change.

Meanwhile all of these other women are enjoying socialising/their friendships while OP is left bitterly looking in from the outside. If my take is right (which it may not be, only have this thread to go on and how she’s responded to posters) then it’s a sad way to be and is only causing herself difficulties. But hopefully some of the advice and responses will sink in a little.

i don't follow a code. if i want to use the word female i will ffs. if i read that other women don't particularly like hanging out with women, i don't care. at a guess, it is the sort of female who is up in arms by my honest comment that i would avoid spending time with {grin}. and yes, i like mumsnet. most of the time i don't post but rather observe the bitchiness that flies around and reaffirms my distance from women

Yet here you are, blighter. Fallen from the high and mighty observer of MN, to talking fraff among females.

What do you think a group of men would have had to say to OP’s dilemma?

I would imagine faces all round tbh.

You get bitches in men and women to be fair. I think it's more of a stereotype women are worse for it.

People who don’t like women really do love to flock to mumsnet and pick that scab. I wonder why

I genuinely wonder why someone wouldn’t have better things to do than continuously reaffirm their decision to avoid women by observing women. Illogical. Or perhaps lying

You don’t actually get bitchiness in men. Because it’s called banter, or feedback or honesty or telling it like it is, or being straightforward or not suffering fools- or any number of other names men use to justify being vile to other people.

You don’t actually get bitchiness in men. Because it’s called banter, or feedback

Or politics. See also, House of Commons, Boris Johnson, Julius Caesar, 'et tu, Brute'....

But of course it's never trivial, and always important.

“they were made to feel inferior by her confidence in engaging an actual man 😳 in normal conversation.”

Is this some kind of joke?

An “actual man” indeed.

Ooh nice bit of homophobia there NoTheresa. Just what this thread needed. Care to elaborate? Apologise? Or is that just more “bait” from you?

“straight men”

Wow!

“straight men”

Wow!

Now, now. Give NoTheresa a break. Surely everyone knows that ’bitchiness’ is encoded in the gay gene?

They just aren’t your people, OP.

• ‘they’ being ‘women ‘ (or ‘females’), I suspect

She mentioned the hearing issues and finding it easier to follow conversations with men and then snapped when I tried to expand on it.

Because we both know I don't have hearing issues and you were actually being obtuse. And then acting all innocent. However, my close young family members do have hearing loss. We would never call them 'issues'. Are you this goady or uninformed about all kinds of disability or just as you put it 'hearing and comprehension issues'

Ah, females and gay men engage in bitchiness. Understood.

How are comments like that allowed to stand? Misogyny and homophobia all rolled together in one bite-size sentence of bile.

You are coming across as quite bitter.

Don’t most people just take people (well adults at least) just get to a point where they take people as they come? I have hundreds of female friends / acquaintances probably - from childhood, uni, neighbours, wives / partners of DH’s friends, hobbies, primary schools and now three separate secondary schools. I can’t think of a single time, I’ve experienced female cliques. Well not since school and the teen years. But if I did, why should it bother me. I don’t need their company particularly. When it comes to men, I just chat to whoever presents themselves, but who cares? There is no need for drama about any of this. Surely it's ibvious that there’s all types of women and all types of men, so just go with it. Nothing to worry about.

I think that typically young girls tend to have more language then their male peers, societal gender norms further encourage girls to become proficient communicators, and so this continues into adulthood. This leads to the majority of women (generalisation) to become quite sophisticated communicators, able to, with relative ease, hold several conversations at the same time, use inflection, tone and facial expressions very effectively.

Boys/men (generalisation) tend to be discouraged in terms of developing such effective communication in favour of physical prowess (thanks for that gender stereotypes ).

For a proportion of people, many of whom have slightly divergent social communication development, this more sophisticated and nuanced communication can be difficult to decipher and quite exhausting to follow and participate in thus finding male dominated environments and conversations less challenging (again a generalisation).