To say this needs sorting ASAP to the preschool staff?

[EndGamer]

Ds 3 goes to the school preschool - he will be in their foundation year after summer next year.
Lovely preschool he’s settled fantastically well lovely staff etc. Monday he came home his pants were dirty and his bum super sore from not being wiped properly. I explained to staff he will try and wipe it himself but he can’t do it properly could they check him and I’ve sent in some wet wipes for him.
Today hes again in dirty pants, he had a poo after the register this morning he said so he’s been like that all day! Poo on the back of his top and again he’s really sore.
Aibu to think most 3 year old would need helping out with this and to say to the preschool it needs to sorting?!

Hazeyjane while I appreciate your opinion and your care it is not part of my job as a primary school teacher to change a 5 year olds nappy

I didn't say it was part of your job rededucator, (ie a primary school teacher) I said it was part of 'the job' (ie my job - an early years practitioner in a preschool)

My DS would have been mortified at having his bottom checked by nursery staff at three, and some children may have turned four. I don't think nursery staff should be checking every child, so if a child hasn't asked for help then staff may not be aware there is a problem.

then staff may not be aware there is a problem.
The op told them there was a problem

@TuckMyWin it's actually 1:8 for 3 year old and 1:13 if there's a qualified teacher present. But having been a deputy manager/pre school room leader in a private day nursery for many years we would always help children wipe if required and as someone has already said my 7 year old doesn't wipe properly so I wouldn't imagine many 3 year olds can.

Oh come on he's three years old. Of course he needs help with poos. They are barely potty trained at that age. Ridiculous.
At 6 I'd expect self care but not at 3.

@velocitygirl7 To continue, I work bloody hard, doing a job I'm passionate about, do hours of unpaid overtime each month and go beyond the call of duty many times a day (as do all my colleagues) and yet I'm criticised on here for daring to suggest that 3/4 year olds are perfectly capable of wiping themselves, if given lots of guidance and encouragement. Obviously there are exceptions and I would always assist if necessary

To be fair you were criticised for saying "the 'only' children who can't wipe their bottoms at 3yrs old are those who haven't been encouraged by their parents". Not for anything else.

I'm sure you are great at your job and, like most childcare providers, go over and above your paid duties. But you had to know that that statement was always going to be challenged?

Pre-school attached to a school is different from private nursery. I’ve had four kids go through both and the pre schools without fail have always stipulated children can’t start unless they are toilet trained. Private nurseries will change nappies up to any age I believe.

Hazeyjane and who's job does it become if they can't manage when starting Primary school?

Pre-school attached to a school is different from private nursery. I’ve had four kids go through both and the pre schools without fail have always stipulated children can’t start unless they are toilet trained. Private nurseries will change nappies up to any age I believe.

It really isn't different. Children do not have to be in school until the term of their 5th Birthday. Until then they are in childcare, however it's dressed up.

Being a childcare provider means that you meet the child's needs. All of them. Not just the bits that are deemed acceptable. Being toilet trained does not mean you have the dexterity to wipe your own bottom effectively. Being a pre school attached to a school does not mean that some 3yr olds (or older) do not need support or assistance with their personal needs.

Once a child is of school age they still cannot be excluded because they are still in nappies, or pull-ups or unable to wipe their bottoms alone. For those children that still need help a plan will be made.

There are no laws in this country that say any childcare provider is unable to assist a child in the bathroom. Sadly many people use 'safeguarding' as a reason for not doing it. It's utter tosh.

Every person who works with children should be aware and able to help, assist or support a child who needs help with self care in any form.

I've helped many children in Reception to wipe their bottoms (either by encouragement and explaining what to do with the paper, or else directly helping with a colleague present). I didn't really bat an eyelid - it's just part of my job.

To the people who say most 3/4 year olds can wipe their own bottom properly I can only imagine you've never had your own 3/4 year old come home from preschool. To all intents and purposes my ds at that age happily went to the toilet on his own, and would have been considered one of the perfect bottom wipers but as his mum, I knew different 😬😁

I worked in a nursery many years ago. It was rare for me to wipe 3 and 4 year olds bums, younger yes. I didn't see what their bums were like when they got home, but I never had any complaints from parents either.

My DD is 5 and has just gone into year 1. She has only just learnt how to wipe her own bum! In reception the teachers and TA’s were fantastic. My DD had a fear of not wiping her bum properly because she came home with poo’d knickers once from not knowing if she wiped it properly and hated it. She didn’t want to ask the teachers. I told her teacher and TA and the TA advised me to bring in some wipes and that they would be there when she goes, to make sure she wiped it properly, and helped if necessary.

When any child went to the toilet at her Preschool, a staff member would always check.

My son’s nursery has a three wipes rule. If it’s still dirty after three wipes you call for help. I think this is a much better idea than leaving them to deal with it themselves. Three is still very young.

rededucator if a child starts school and has an accident, is so dirty after wiping they are sore and they have poo on their clothes or needs changing then they need cleaning up - the teacher needs the support of a TA or the ability to call for one so that together they can ensure that the child is clean and able to carry on their day. In reception there will still be a few children who need some support.

If a child needs support in the area of toileting after reception age then a care plan needs to be drawn up, which clearly states how that child's needs are met.

...pre schools without fail have always stipulated children can’t start unless they are toilet trained preschools (or schools) cannot refuse admission to children because they are not toilet trained - it goes against the equality act.

At my childrens’ preschool they had to get on with it as no one would hear a child calling for assistance as they had to take themselves to the toilet and toilets were away from class room . Certainly not enough staff to attend to each child doing a poo and needing their bum wiping.

This thread has obviously divided opinion but I will have to broach it as I can’t have ds being sore. He’s there 5 days a week so definitely will happen again at some point!
I will clarify with them if they are able to help him or whether they expect him to do it alone as a starting point and go from there.

Definitely speak to them about it. I'm sure nobody wants him to be uncomfortable and sore all day. I'm surprised by how many 3 year olds seem to be able to wipe themselves properly. My 3 year old has been toilet trained for almost a year but still can't wipe himself well. I've never noticed he is dirty after pre school so either they are helping him or he doesn't poo while he is there. I do know there are a few children who aren't toilet trained yet there though so they obviously don't mind helping.

It’s a parents job to toilet train their own child.
I don’t know what planet people are living on.
This government is slyly reducing support staff in schools. Soon your child will be in a class of 30 without any support staff. A teacher cannot leave the 29, stop teaching, and go anywhere near a child in a toilet alone. That is never going to happen.
Private schools are different. If you want lots of adults in your child’s class then you are going to have to specifically pay for it.
Wake up people.
No state school in the uk is measured by how much toileting support a child receives.
The only thing that matters are acedemic results.
Sorry for the rant but that is fact.

Ok substitute legal for legislation. I can't wipe bums and keep my job. If you'd like to take that up with Glashow City Council crack on.

Sorry, that’s an utter nonsense, I know the authority well and have known many children in school nursery settings within the authority area - no one would be disciplined for wiping a child’s bottom. If you’d like to provide evidence to the contrary I’d love to see it.

Emilybronte.....the OP's child is 3. In a preschool, not at primary school. In the EYFS children are learning in all areas of development. Intimate care is part of the life of a preschool.

Nobody on this thread has said that it isn't a parents job to toilet train, but when children are learning to go to the toilet, it is the preschools job to work with the parents in supporting the child.

Hazeyjane and who's job does it become if they can't manage when starting Primary school?
My DD6 still had difficulties with toiletting in P2, she’s adopted and there were significant issues around trauma for her. The school staff (teaching support, office staff, head teacher) have all at some point helped her when she’s had an accident or struggled to clean herself. And they’ve done it in a patient, caring, non-shaming way, in a Scottish school not too far from Glasgow. If they can manage it, I’m sure others can too.

It’s a parents job to toilet train their own child.

Which they can't do if they're not there.

So nurseries have to help. And all the ones I've had dealings with, do.

This must be one of the most depressing threads I've ever read. 'It's a parent's job,' 'teach him at home,' etc. The OP has not disputed that it must be taught and reinforced at home but at three, children are learning and developing and don't all have the same skills and abilities. We have six sons (I know, we are irresponsible and the sole cause of global warming but that's another thread) and the most 'advanced' in this regard was in pants by 18 months and could use wipes on himself-albeit in a contortionist type way as his arms weren't long enough to reach around the back! The 'slowest' to learn was still in a pull up on his third birthday, having mastered wee but not poo. The only reflection on my parenting there is that we were calm about it and understood that every child learns different things at different rates and needs different support. Any decent childcare setting will recognise that. The OP does not appear to expect someone to accompany the child the loo and do all of the cleaning, simply for a check to be made and guidance given. I don't think that's unreasonable.

Barring special needs or medical reasons quite frankly he should be able to wipe his own ass.

one of my friends is a primary teacher and every year has half a dozen kids in her class that aren;t toilet trained 'because that;s the teacher's job' - don't be that parent.

teach you kid how to wipe - it's not complicated

and stop expecting other people to parent for you.