To say this needs sorting ASAP to the preschool staff?

[EndGamer]

Ds 3 goes to the school preschool - he will be in their foundation year after summer next year.
Lovely preschool he’s settled fantastically well lovely staff etc. Monday he came home his pants were dirty and his bum super sore from not being wiped properly. I explained to staff he will try and wipe it himself but he can’t do it properly could they check him and I’ve sent in some wet wipes for him.
Today hes again in dirty pants, he had a poo after the register this morning he said so he’s been like that all day! Poo on the back of his top and again he’s really sore.
Aibu to think most 3 year old would need helping out with this and to say to the preschool it needs to sorting?!

This thread provides some great arguments against school nurseries.

It is also really easy to see, on this thread, why inclusion isn't working.

My 4yr old struggles to wipe their bum properly most of the time.

You need to teach him to ask for help when he needs the toilet. Otherwise they may not even know he's been.

But I don't think yabu to expect them to help a 3yr old. What did they say about it when you spoke to them?

There might not be enough staff to attend to children not wiping their bum properly. They might be dealing with a million more important things!!

They might be dealing with a million more important things!!

What’s more important than meeting a child’s needs?

Any child who had an toileting accident would be collected by parent. It didn’t happen often as it was in the parents ‘ interests to get the situation sorted.

Then the school were in breach of the law, pamplemousse, as well as failing in their duty of care to the child.

No, you are wrong pamplemousse. What do you think teachers in special schools do?
I’ve looked into this as I have a child in mainstream with continence needs relating to a disability. DP is a teacher and she performs personal care. You can’t be forced, but you do have a duty of care to that child and need to ensure physical needs are met. Otherwise you are in breach of the Equality Act.

Bullshit. That’s simply not true. It’s not just one nursery preschool I’m talking about here. It is not against the law. As long as they call the parents or try to instruct the child they are doing nothing wrong.

Special schools are different but we aren’t talking about this here

You’ve not told me what thing you’re doing that is more important than meeting a child’s need?

Jelly cat - I’m not “ doing” anything so don’t refer to it in that way how odd!
So a child can’t quite wipe the shit off their bum, there’s a child who has fallen and bitten their tongue, a child who is about to do something dangerous, a child has hit another child. Sorry but a bit of poo will need to wait!

Gosh I’m glad my DS is in a private day nursery after reading this thread he is 3.5 and his attempts to wipe his own bum usually result in poo on his hands, arms and up his back. Yes we’re teaching him but no he absolutely can’t do it on his own yet and nor reliably can any of his peers that I know of - I’m sure there are a few who are advanced in this area. Equally there are about 5 out of 24 in his nursery room still in nappies. It’s mad that they won’t help him.

You said you were dealing with a million other more important things, which suggests doing - unless you’re merely directing traffic. Yes we have competing needs to deal with but you weren’t saying a bit of poo would need to wait, you said you wouldn’t help the child and would call their parents to deal with it.

Waiting for 10 minutes for the other stuff to settle and arranging for someone in the setting to attend to the child’s needs is quite different to what you’ve described.

I wouldn’t wipe their bum no. I’d direct them to do it themselves as best they can. Major accidents or multiple- yep parents would be called. I’m not making this up you know it really is what has happened at every single non private setting I have ever been in.

Private day nurseries- fine. Fill your boots with dirty nappies/ soiled pants whatever.
Special schools of course they must help if the child is less able
Neurotypical, able bodied children should be able to have a pretty good job by age three and f wiping their own bum!

Neurotypical, able bodied children should be able to have a pretty good job by age three and f wiping their own bum!
My children are both neurosurgical and able bodied and really struggled with toiletting until very recently, and had good reason for this. I have friends whose children struggled with toiletting until 4/5. I think one of the problems with putting children into formal education too early is that there’s so little tolerance for the range of normal development and for things that aren’t diagnosable but will disrupt that development. It does worry me that teachers in primary education seem to have so little understanding of child development that they think not being wholly toilet trained and able to wipe fully clean at 3 is in some way abnormal or shameful.

Neurosurgical - I mean neurotypical, they’re not that good.

Though apparently they should be holding down a good job at 3, so who knows!

Well I don’t think you can force this on Teachers. I doubt they would be disciplined for it if they had at least instructed the child what to do. I feel sorry for them though. There’s a massive rise I. Kids going to school with nappies on. It’s so negligent of the parents in many of these cases. ( not SEN) to allow this to happen. Humiliating in the extreme. Selfish taking away teachers precious time. Apparently one school in Birmingham had so many kids in nappies they had to employ a full time nappy changer not envy. What a bloody waste of tax payers money

There’s a massive difference between kids going to school in nappies and kids needing support with toiletting. The latter is perfectly reasonable for some kids when school starting age is 4. Where I am they would still be in nursery and would be supported in toiletting (including bum wiping and changing clothes).

Besides which the OP is talking about a pre-school 3 year old, nothing to do with primary school.

And if you can’t think of reason why a small child might struggle with toiletting age 4/5 short of disability, neglect or neurological difference, you seriously need additional training.

I helped out in our school nursery and my experience was that when kids had accidents the staff helped deal with them. Parents were never called. They would also help with wiping if asked. However, kids went to the loo on their own, so they would have to ask for help iyswim. Also I never saw children picking on others when they had accidents. Mostly they didn't even notice, as they were too busy being 3. Some of the things said on here make me sad, they are still so little.

I don’t need anything! I’m not a teacher

I work in early years and most are more than capable of wiping themselves at 3/4 and the only ones who can't, are the ones who haven't been encouraged to!

I completely agree. 15 years ago when Ds was at pre school it was expected that they would be able to use the toilet themselves and we spent a lot of time beforehand making sure he was able to do it along with hanging up his coat,finding his name badge etc.

As a tax payer I can’t think of much that’s more important and about which I am happy to pay tax than for 3 year old to have help wiping his bum if he can’t manage it. And to provide all sorts of support where possible whether needed because if sen/disability/medical reasons. Also extremely happy to pay tax which goes to parenting support where that is indicated. I’d hope we would all be happy for tax to be spent on that !?

My (just turned) 3 year old is super independent in lots of ways. She’ll make her own breakfast, is confident and can listen to rules etc. But, she can’t wipe her bottom properly after a poo like most of her peers because she can’t really reach properly . I wouldn’t have her in any setting that refused to help. At that age lots of 3 year old will still need help, will still have accidents etc. It is horrid to leave them. If a school nursery is able to refuse to help with toileting, I just wouldn’t use them as I think it is substandard care.

So at just turned 3 was he a really efficient wiper and hand washer? Maybe he was; others might not have been, despite encouragement. It not really about being able to use the toilet by themselves; most 3 year olds can do that. For a 2.5 hour session, for the majority of children the situation simply wouldn't arise as most would not do poo in that time. As nursery sessions get longer and the children attending them get younger, the increased need for personal care becomes greater.