Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think a second referendum is the ONLY democratic way forward?

183 replies

tequilasunrises · 03/09/2019 18:17

With Remain, Deal and No Deal on the ballot?

It’s becoming so tricky to gage the public view on Brexit now that No Deal seems the most likely outcome. The DM comments would have you believe that No Deal was what we voted for all along. There a #remainernow campaigns on Twitter that argue that No Deal was never what anyone voted before. There are original Remainers that claim we have been treated so badly by the EU that they would now vote to Leave.

I still think Leave would win, but I think this would be split between Deal and No Deal giving Remain a majority.

But Brexit with a Deal and No Deal Brexit are seemingly two different factions now, so how else can any government democratically get around this?

Thoughts?

OP posts:
Random18 · 04/09/2019 06:57

Do people really understand what's going to happen though?

Some who pretend to speak for the whole 17.4 million are literally frothing at the mouth shouting 'Traitors' and 'Project Fear'.

Some remainers are just as bad when they call all leavers Thick.

Trimummy3 · 04/09/2019 06:58

Ok let’s have second one... most people I know would still vote leave. Some people I know would vote leave out of principle.

I think if your constituent voted you in

  1. if you defect to a new party... yes Lee I’m looking at you, it triggers a by election immediately.

  2. you should by law follow the wishes of your people...personal opinion should not factor. You look after a leave area... you push for that in parliament.

I’m quite cross how many of these arseholes are ignoring the people and doing what they think is best.

If we vote again, I would vote leave.

glastogal · 04/09/2019 07:03

I think the only way anything will get resolved regarding brexit is to have another referendum, even though I kind of agree that's

Trimummy3 · 04/09/2019 07:04

Also the “bit the leave campaign lied” argument is a load of crap.

How many lies are told during a general election? How many promises are broken? Those results still stand though don’t they?

glastogal · 04/09/2019 07:08

(baby pressed send)

.. that the first referendum should be honoured (I voted remain).

The fact is that parliament CANNOT get it done. They will never agree and will continue to spend millions of ££ arguing over it. A general election will not probably not hand anyone enough of a majority to get it done either.

The government needs a really clear message about how the people feel about a no deal brexit - although a fully expect a bullshit campaign like last time!!

MordredsOrrery · 04/09/2019 07:11

Trimummy3 the corruption referred to by the High Court wasn't just about lying to the electorate.

It was about how much money was spent by Leave (far beyond that legally allowed), it was about their methods (see Cambridge Analytica), it was about their links to other organisations.

Calling it lying and suggesting it is on a par with whether politicians keep to their manifesto massively minimises what has actually happened here.

Trimummy3 · 04/09/2019 07:14

How much does a referendum cost? Or a general election?

Disgusting behaviour to not deliver what most people (that could be arsed to vote) voted for.

If Jc ever gets in power, I’m going to start calling the voters thick and telling them they don’t understand “basic information” throw my toys out pram and demand another election immediately.

Trimummy3 · 04/09/2019 07:15

Oh it’s a loophole and you know it. I’d already decided my vote before I saw any silly bus advert re the nhs.

greentheme23 · 04/09/2019 07:17

Perhaps if we have a second referendum then the options need to be clearly thought through first. Don't put an option on the ballot paper if it's not possible or hasn't been thought through.

greentheme23 · 04/09/2019 07:18

You know when the doctor in charge of a no deal emergency plan is ordering more body bags that it's not a good option!!

Random18 · 04/09/2019 07:24

But JRM says noone is going to die.............

Surely you believe him over all the experts? Come on now. All we need to do is believe.............

Trimummy3 · 04/09/2019 07:25

Who exactly is going to die here?

MordredsOrrery · 04/09/2019 07:26

A loophole? Really? When Leave illegally overspent by 10% in order to target 7m voters with 1.5bn Fb ads in 4 days? Having already used the data from Cambridge Analytica to select their targets based on the most sophisticated (and, again, dodgy) methods available?

This isn't about a bus.

If democracy really matters to you, this should be about how one ideological group is able to act illegally to influence the outcome of a non-binding election to get the most extreme interpretation of the question through parliament. Without scrutiny.

You are happy with the outcome of that corruption this time. What if next time it is employed to obtain a result you aren't happy with? If you accept it now, you'll have no recourse then.

Trimummy3 · 04/09/2019 07:27

If this lot stopped mucking about and started making plans so we had medicines without disruption...

Ffsnosexallowed · 04/09/2019 07:27

But it's not up to us how we leave, we can't choose between deal and no deal. What deal would be acceptable? It's a nonsense.

CloudyVanilla · 04/09/2019 07:35

@MordredsOrrery all you’ve posted is so interesting and no offence but the reaction of a leave supporter in the face of what you’re saying is also really interesting to me.

It really is incredible to me how much one can ignore information if it challenges what one wants to believe or what one wants to happen.

MerryChristmasHarry · 04/09/2019 07:37

Anyone who thinks the Leave's campaigns breaches were merely a lie on the side of a bus clearly isn't aware of the extent of the problem. It was a breach of electoral law. Complying with that isn't optional, even if there were somehow a way, which there isn't, to show that the overspending made no difference to anyone.

SheWoreBlueVelvet · 04/09/2019 07:38

No Deal isn’t an end goal like leave or remain.

It’s a way of getting a different deal with the EU. There’s literally no scenario ever where we wouldn’t deal with the EU in the future.

Tonka2 · 04/09/2019 07:39

The only reason a lot of people are wanting another referendum is because they now think there is no way the British public will vote to leave. If they thought that was a genuine possibility I’d imagine they’d baulk at the idea. What happens if we have a second referendum and again we vote to leave? Have another one? I voted to remain, but having a 2nd referendum because people weren’t happy with the first result seems like something that would happen in some 3rd world dictatorship, Mugabe style…. So we leave.

MordredsOrrery · 04/09/2019 07:43

@CloudyVanilla the extent of the corruption is astonishing. I'm actually terrified by how well they've managed to spin it so it seems that they are in the right and corruption doesn't matter.

All of us should be worried about what letting the 2016 referendum result go through will mean. It is a nail on the coffin of democracy, yet people still argue it is undemocratic to ignore it. Quite incredible.

marvellousnightforamooncup · 04/09/2019 07:53

I think there should be a referendum but not before some stringent new laws on press propaganda and lies and the implementation of lots of the Leveson recommendations. The people need to be informed properly what they're voting for.

Also nobody seems to have done anything about Farage's dodgy campaign money either. How can we run another vote when the previous one was so corrupt and nobody has been held to account.

MordredsOrrery · 04/09/2019 07:54

Tonka2 there's a bigger picture here. Whilst there's a lot to worry about with the Leave/Remain outcome, the real issue is how Leave won and why we're allowing that to go unchallenged.

The vote was corrupt and the outcome would have been quashed had it been legally binding.

That the electorate are ignoring this on favour of rehashing the original debate means we are willing to accept corruption. So I wouldn't worry about us becoming a 3rd world dictatorship, Mugabe style - if we allow the 2016 corruption to go unchallenged, we're already there

Autumnintheair · 04/09/2019 07:56

General election.
Labour or rather kier has openly said Labour is remain.
Tory, brexit.

Let party win and get on with it.
Tory and brexit party aligned will win.

Autumnintheair · 04/09/2019 08:00

Mordred.

People who voted leave, the majority, because they can see and read with thier eyes what the eu is.
There was barely a single positive thing that came out of the campaign for the eu!

Some leave voters who were undecided may have been swayed by bus etc. But then whilst many Remainers also knew they would vote remain, some will have been hit by project fear.

Trying to gaslight 17. Blah million people is tyranny.

General election.

marvellousnightforamooncup · 04/09/2019 08:08

There wasn't anything positive coming out of the remain campaign because the government had been happy to blame Brussels for all the problems when it was stuff they were to blame for. I agree Remain ran a shit campaign but it wasn't because the EU isn't good for this country.