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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think Angel was a bit of a skeaze?

255 replies

herculepoirot2 · 03/09/2019 15:20

Am frittering away my afternoon re-watching Buffy, which I used to love. And as I’m watching, I’m realising that I am seeing a man who is 250 years old climbing in the window of a 16 year old girl in the middle of the night, and I’m thinking that’s pretty grim. She has teddy bears on her bed.

OP posts:
NerrSnerr · 04/09/2019 19:34

I didn't like Willow and Xander from when they cheated on Oz and Cordelia.

Anya, Spike and Giles were my favourites.

TheZeppo · 04/09/2019 20:17

When Anya was still initially a demon she was really cool and sophisticated. Then they made her human and suddenly made her seem like she had no idea what she was doing.

I’d never considered the fact that Willow probably used the ‘forget’ spell on Tara. I completely agree that Willow was really abusive at that point in their relationship (and shouldn’t have been allowed a pass due to her addictions).

Has anyone seen that new show coming up
On 4Music with Michelle T? She seems really different with age. I know she’s an adult now (and has put a bit of weight on) but it’s more... she seems really cold behind the eyes? Or maybe I’m just seeing things.

MrsBadcrumble123 · 04/09/2019 20:22

I thought Rob Patterson’s character was a massive paedo in Twilight!

YesQueen · 04/09/2019 20:24

I watched the whole lot again for the hundredth time after I had spinal surgery
I have a line from a buffy episode tattooed on me Grin

YesQueen · 04/09/2019 20:26

Spike...

TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross · 04/09/2019 20:27

"Without passion we'd be truly dead"?

Figgygal · 04/09/2019 20:32

Shamelessly placemarking for all the buffy chat

Oh god I loved that show and the last season of angel (very hit and miss before that apart from Doyle)

Agree with others when they say watching it again now is definitely watching it through different eyes

Icantreachthepretzels · 04/09/2019 20:34

@geekone I love Lani too - and after everything she's been through with that utter dickhead I worry about her falling in with this woke crowd. Sometimes she sounds like she doesn't really agree with whatever bullshit Noelle is spouting ... but she just doesn't dare say so.

Icantreachthepretzels · 04/09/2019 20:38

You're right Faithinfinity - I don't like Faith (though that might be because I saw this year's girl/ who are you before s3 so I watched her introduction knowing she was a baddie) But she is certainly held to much a higher standard than the others and forced to actually pay and never really forgiven. Her first kill was an accident and she went into decline from that. The same in not true of Willow - who arguably gives Faith the hardest time!

Icantreachthepretzels · 04/09/2019 20:39

Doyle only did 9 eps as the actor died.

He died 3 years later!

YesQueen · 04/09/2019 20:54

@TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross yup. I'm soon to have another added

TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross · 04/09/2019 20:59

If I had a Buffy tattoo, I'd have "Out. For. A. Walk. Bitch".

A quick Google sadly gives very few examples of that: everyone has the passion one or bits of her death speech from The Gift (usually "The hardest thing in this world is to live in it. Be brave. Live".)

YesQueen · 04/09/2019 21:00

I have maya angelou and Harry Potter quotes too Grin the next one is "love isn't brains, it's blood" (I'm missing the children bit out)

to think Angel was a bit of a skeaze?
TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross · 04/09/2019 21:03

Doyle only did 9 eps as the actor died.

Er, no - rumour has it he was written out abruptly because he had a pretty serious drug problem.

TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross · 04/09/2019 21:06

I would always be worried about Maya Angelou quotes because so much stuff is attributed to her online which isn't hers at all! This story about the US stamp makes me laugh.

YesQueen · 04/09/2019 21:09

@TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross I have part of a poem of hers so it's 100% hers! And the Harry Potter one is from the book and film

TitsInAbsentia · 04/09/2019 21:18

Team Spike here too....and seriously thinking a rewatch may have to be scheduled in to my autumn/winter viewing!

Singlebutmarried · 04/09/2019 21:19

Ah......I thought he’d died because of drug related problems after the first season, but was written out because of the drug issues early on.

Singlebutmarried · 04/09/2019 21:19

Oh also. Spike/Cordelia guested on supernatural (sadly not as Spike and Cordy)

dustarr73 · 04/09/2019 21:34

Doyle played by Glenn Quinn also played Mark from Roseanne.

ScruffGin · 04/09/2019 21:36

I have to say I don't have as clear memories as most people on here, but I was always team Spike, I found Angel very annoying! I always liked Willow though, must've blocked the bad stuff out Grin

Icantreachthepretzels · 04/09/2019 21:43

Now Mark from Roseanne is problematic! I love him because he's Doyle and therefore can never be wrong but ... he is such a sexist asshole. Apart from sometimes when he's really adorable and romantic.
And sometimes he's so stupid he can barely tie his own shoelaces and sometimes he manages to manipulate everyone and get what he wants and have great put downs. He's very inconsistently written - but Glenn is consistently excellent in the role.

FaithInfinity · 04/09/2019 21:44

I think the official line was that Joss wanted to axe a main character early on to shock value; unofficial rumour was that Glenn was substance abusing which affected his performance and time keeping. Yes he died a few years later and the cast from Angel all spoke fondly of him and said how sad it was.

Icantreachthepretzels · 04/09/2019 22:13

Controversial post ahead - but:

Joss Whedon never spoke fondly of him. Joss Whedon doesn't even like him to be mentioned - you should listen to the commentary of 'city of' Joss and David Greenwalt talk around Doyle like he isn't even there. The bit where he rams the car into the gate - they're talking about what time they did the filming to get the sky that colour, when he rams the gate they talk about it as if the car acted alone ... it's uncanny.

A lot of the behind the scenes people - high up people - had no idea what the problem was. Tim Minear now toes the 'had to let him go because of drug abuse' line but he was always pushing to bring him back - which suggests he wasn't aware what the problems had been.

David and Charisma, who worked with him the most closely, have never had anything but wonderful things to say about him. If the rumours of bad behaviour on set, not knowing lines and not showing up were true it would have affected them most of all - because they worked with him day in day out. They knew nothing.

Glenn clearly had very serious problems and it is a terrible tragedy what happened to him. But Joss Whedon is a rodent of a man who still publicly holds a grudge against Donald Sutherland for the Buffy film, publicly fell out with James Marsters and sacked Charisma for getting pregnant. He doesn't like it when things don't go his way. The line about having to let Glenn go because of drug abuse didn't come out until after he had died (and could no longer speak for himself) putting the blame for an unpopular decision firmly on Glenn. But Nicky Brendon was abusing alcohol towards the end of Buffy, Eliza Dushku was on drugs ... he kept them around. I think he got rid of Doyle because he wanted to get rid of Doyle. The drug line, when it became convenient, was his cover.

The actual rumour going around Hollywood at the time was that he was let go for drinking - and that rumour effectively ruined his career. There's a show called 'boulevard of broken dreams' that looks at actors who die from drug and alcohol addictions and when it covered Glenn it made it sound like the hard core drug abuse didn't happen until after Angel. I don't wanna say cause and effect but ... getting fired from Angel really hit him hard.

We know Joss whedon behaved terribly during the Buffy/ Angel years - sleeping with the actresses and claiming to his wife it was their fault because they threw themselves at him, firing at east one person who definitely didn't deserve it and going out of his way to make her miserable. When it comes to what to believe about Glenn leaving the show ... it's actually Joss Whedon that doesn't deserve the benefit of any doubt.

nottomgates · 04/09/2019 22:13

Omg actually loving this thread.
I have recently rewatched this with my DS. He’s all over it. Bit cringy the sex scenes with Buffy- especially her college flings.
I’m defo team Spike.
LOVED once more with feeling and ordered the CD to also play in the car. Love James’ singing. Fave song is let me rest in peace.
Love how Fred played an old one- great transformation!