to think Angel was a bit of a skeaze?

[herculepoirot2]

Am frittering away my afternoon re-watching Buffy, which I used to love. And as I’m watching, I’m realising that I am seeing a man who is 250 years old climbing in the window of a 16 year old girl in the middle of the night, and I’m thinking that’s pretty grim. She has teddy bears on her bed.

Icantreachthepretzels Thanks for that, I’m in stitches 😂😂

I actually think it’s really interesting that Angel had no real purpose at the start-he was just ‘handsome stranger who gives advice’- he was never intended to be Buffys boyfriend and I wonder where the decision to make him so came from

To be fair though pretzels, Buffy didn't know they were going to kill off Doyle so quickly
I think the cross over episodes were needed. As great as Doyle was, Angel as a show was very patchy and I liked the continuing link to Buffy (the show).

OMG pretzels I think you're me!!!

That clip is hilarious

😂 it's been a while since I've watched Angel (the show)
Must catch up on it while watching Buffy.

Loving this thread. Sorry if this has been mentioned before but my favourite thing about rewatching Buffy and Angel is spotting early cameos

Jeremy Renner in Angel is hilarious!

It's said that the vampire taping Buffy's fight at the beginning of 'Halloween' is actually Alexis Denisof in vampire makeup. I don't know if it's true (I don't think the role is credited) ... but it does look a lot like him.

Pretzels you are impressive in your attention to detail
Brilliant

Ha! I've rewritten every single episode of Angel to include Doyle (well - nearly I'm just onto rewriting season 5) There isn't a thing about both these shows I don't know off the top of my head right now. But when I'm done ... man am I done! I don't think I'm ever going to want to see or hear about the Buffyverse ever again.

I think it’s interesting that Alexis (Wesley) and Alyson (Willow) are married and have so many babies in RL!

Isn't it just 2?

True about Angel’s obsession with Buffy.

The other thing that always annoys me is when Xander attacks Buffy while possessed by the spirit of a hyena or whatever, then claims he doesn’t remember anything, and Giles agrees to keep this secret so that Xander doesn’t have to face up to the consequences - as if Buffy will just get over it (which, since this is TV, she apparently does.) Grr! Argh!

Must get around to my annual Buffy binge soon

Yes - and when he accidently reveals that he does remember that it's just ha ha! classic Xander lolz.
It makes the way he acts about Spike attempting to rape Buffy extra hypocritical though. He's done it too - and yeah, he was possessed but ... being a soulless vampire is not hundred miles away from possessed. If normal Xander should feel no guilt or shame for the actions of hyena xander then soulful Spike/ Angel shouldn't have to feel guilt or shame for the actions of evil Spike/ Angel

The show is very inconsistent as to who is culpable of their actions and when and who has to be made to pay.

I think it’s interesting that Alexis (Wesley) and Alyson (Willow) are married and have so many babies in RL!

Oooh, I did not know that.

Never been a fan of Xander. I get that he’s the heart of the show in some ways, however I mostly find him irritating and twerpy. I also wish he had addressed the jilting Anya properly-he sees his father and doesn’t want to turn out like him-but this is never discussed.

I’ve just finished season 1 of Angel-held on thankfully and I am intrigued by the ending. Let’s see where season 2 goes!

Alexis Denisof also played Robin's creepy boss on HIMYM - I had no idea, despite watching both in parallel!

Oh Xander. There are times when I love him (the yellow crayon speech and the 'you're not special you're extraordinary speech' and the way he cheers Buffy up and gives her her confidence back in 'The freshman') But then there are all the times where I'm just yelling at him, and he's being so awful and he gets away with it - or the writers seem to think he's in the right (when he tells Buffy to chase after Riley wtf?)

Overall I love him. If I watch an episode and I haven't seen Buffy for a long time then seeing him makes me happy - like reconnecting with an old friend. But I'm very frustrated by him.

@Icantreachthepretzels I feel the same. I really shouted at him with the Riley situation.
Just watching now and saw the bit where the robot comes (Warren) and he's staring at her and saying how perfect she is and it's just... ugh.

13Icantreachthepretzels

But Joss Whedon is a rodent of a man who still publicly holds a grudge against Donald Sutherland for the Buffy film, publicly fell out with James Marsters and sacked Charisma for getting pregnant. He doesn't like it when things don't go his way. The line about having to let Glenn go because of drug abuse didn't come out until after he had died (and could no longer speak for himself) putting the blame for an unpopular decision firmly on Glenn. But Nicky Brendon was abusing alcohol towards the end of Buffy, Eliza Dushku was on drugs ... he kept them around. I think he got rid of Doyle because he wanted to get rid of Doyle. The drug line, when it became convenient, was his cover.

Wow, you know so much pretzels ! I am in awe! How did Joss fall out with James Masters? And was Eliza using drugs during Buffy?

As a side note, when the #MeToo movement kicked off and Eliza told the story of her assault and later 'accident' at the hands of a stuntman when she was 12, I have never seen such vitriol be directed at a victim before. She was 12 years old, had reported it at the time but been hushed up, and when she eventually publicly spoke out she had multiple witness accounts from that time backing her story up. Yet the comment sections under the reports were completely sickening. My heart broke for her.

Falling out with James Marsters was years after Buffy finished - it was all over an argument over something one of them said at a convention and then sort of escalated because Joss Whedon can hold a grudge!

I can't remember when I read about Eliza's drug problems, but I think the dates overlapped with her time on the show - maybe the later seasons rather than the earlier ones.

I always wonder about these beautiful young actresses that were always 'throwing themselves' at Joss on the Buffy sets (as he wrote to his wife in the most dickish divorce letter of all time) were they really? Or did they just not feel able to say 'no'?
It would take a very brave woman to come out and accuse him of anything though. I wouldn't do it! I wouldn't even dare bring up the question if this was a Buffy forum!

Got to love a Buffyfest, definitely Spike over Angel, though he did have his moments.
Best episode Hush, that episode was brilliant
Agree 're Giles too..he had a little something something

So I’ve got to Season 2, Ep 15...anyone else actually find Angel more attractive when he’s turned bad again?! It’s that self-assured attitude. I actually think Oz is the best bloke of them all. Kind, thoughtful, cool..shame about the whole monthly change issue!

I’ve been reflecting as I watch again..there’s a couple of things that make Buffy so good (despite the flaws). One is the fact that it’s not too predictable, like I watch some other shows and I see the patterns emerging (I’m autistic, I can’t help it) whereas with Buffy I don’t. Also the humour is great. It must Ben partly the dialogue but Hush proves that it’s not just that - damn that episode is scary! Like the way it’s written is clever. Current episode -
Giles: ‘No, no, let’s not jump to any conclusions.’
Buffy: ‘I didn’t jump - I took a tiny little step and there conclusions were.’

I went to see James Marsters in concert. Beautiful man

But look at him