To say there is no such thing as "altruistic" surrogacy?

[FannyCann]

To say there is no such thing as altruistic surrogacy and that this fiction is a massive state sponsored fraud?

The Law Commission has a Consultation to review surrogacy laws in the UK and you have til 11th October to respond.

There are 16 questions relating to payment, but they find themselves between a rock and a hard place. Admit women are paid for this “service” and recommend full commercial surrogacy puts the UK on a par with countries such as Uganda, the Ukraine and Russia. The UN Special Rapporteur links commercial surrogacy with the sale of babies. So of course we don’t do that in the UK. Oh no. We have “altruistic” surrogacy here. Surrogates are merely recompensed for expenses incurred as a result of the pregnancy, plus the odd “gift”.
So altruistic that from the Law Commioners own research into payments surrogates have been receiving, the median payment was £14,795.54 and 9.61% were paid more than £20,000.

Payments were claimed for things like takeaway meals and cleaners.

This is clearly State Sponsored Fraud. I challenge anyone to produce receipts to prove their pregnancy cost them £20,000

I also suggest that this puts surrogates in a tricky situation should HMRC or the benefits office ever take an interest in the origin of that £20k. It is very wrong for the law to encourage this fraud.

I ask you to look at the background and if you want to have a say into whether commercial surrogacy should be allowed in the UK please respond.

Here is a link to the Nordic Model Now template which you can download and use to respond in ten minutes.

https://nordicmodelnow.org/2019/08/30/how-to-respond-to-the-uk-surrogacy-consultation-in-10-easy-minutes//_

You can find moe background and discussion of the Consultation on this thread.

Building families through surrogacy: A new Law - Consultation
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3649812-building-families-through-surrogacy-a-new-law-consultation

Thanks for the heads up OP. Will be sure to fill in the consultation. I think surrogacy can be a wonderful and selfless act. Yes it need safeguards, but still a great thing.

No Jacques, I may disagree with posters’ views, but we are all entitled to express views on a matter of public interest, whatever our situation.

No Jacques, I may disagree with posters’ views, but we are all entitled to express views on a matter of public interest, whatever our situation

It’s not exactly a valid POV to suggest there’s overpopulation if you have several children yourself is it?

So, the long and short of it is that women who wish to be surrogates are to be disallowed autonomy over their own body by women who disagree with them on the grounds of faux concern about their health. Yes, very feminist.

Feminism isn't the belief that women should be allowed to do whatever they want.

YABU and can fuck off. I am perfectly capable of deciding what to do with my body. I don’t need you telling me that I can’t altruistically (shock horror) offer to carry a baby for women that I am close to who are experiencing problems with conception and pregnancy.

Cash being paid for eggs/having a baby isn’t exactly supporting womens bodily autonomy.

It isn't autonomy over your own body to be allowed to create a gift of another human being.

@SnuggyBuggy that’s true. Unfortunately feminism is the belief that certain select women should be oppressing womankind rather than men. Deplorable. That’s why I’m a liberal and not a feminist.

If I wanted to carry someone’s baby for them for a big wad of cash, it has literally fuck all to do with anyone but me and the parents. My uterus is none of your business.

Adoption and surrogacy cannot be compared. Adoption is a service for children, to provide them with parents to care for them. Yes it gives people the opportunity to be parents, but it is child centred. Surrogacy is a service for adults who want to be parents, it does not benefit children in any way.

Should I be allowed to sell my kidney for a big wad of cash too? My kidney, my business. Should the law support desperate women in poverty renting their wombs for a big wad of cash? Does society have no obligation to safeguard anyone?

@JacquesHammer but most women on this thread who don't support surrogacy aren't arguing from an over population perspective they're objecting to the commodifying of birth and the sale of human babies.

Claiming because it doesn't directly affect someone means they shouldn't have a voice is absurd. I have some examples above but other things that don't impact me but which I care about and am entitled to an opinion on:

FGM
Universal Credit
London congestion charge
Access to public transport
The use of food banks

I'm sure you can think of things that don't directly affect you but on which it is only proper that you are able to express an opinion.

Modern feminism makes me despair. Feminism used to be about women being able to choose and being liberated from the dictatorship of patriarchy. Now it seems to be that women are only able to make choices feminism decrees acceptable. If body autonomy allows me to have an abortion, it also allows me to incubate a baby for someone else. You can’t have it all ways.

Again, if you want to sell your kidney, completely up to you.

@BogglesGoggles that's great for you.

You're educated, financially stable and in good mental health. Can you now put yourself in the shoes of someone who doesn't have that privilege?

Someone who might be desperate for money and not in a position to give unencumbered consent?

Ah, so uneducated, financially insecure women or those with mental health issues aren’t allowed body autonomy? So, we have a double standard. This just gets worse.

@Alsohuman

Dress it up how you like but selling human beings is not about bodily autonomy. It's a hideous, selfish and exploitative. I understand why you like to kid yourself that it's not but it's frankly barbaric.

Commercial surrogacy is abhorrent and should be banned worldwide.
The supporters of it are fucking idiots.
It is absolutely buying babies. Exploitation of poor women.

Posters here centre the intended parents in the debate, that there feelings are the most important. Like there isn't other people involved.

Again, if you want to sell your kidney, completely up to you.

So the possibility of a two tier organ donation system involving those rich enough to bypass the list isn't a problem to you? The fact that studies have shown the dire poverty and desperation of those who sell their organs and often poor outcomes for them afterwards is of no concern?

Alsohuman it's the opposite really. Those who are in great positions are arguing for the rights of wannabe parents to exploit those who aren't. They are arguing for the right of two men to match with a 'willing' surrogate on Facebook who is in debt and has some learning difficulties and exploit her just like happened in that recent case. And again, using somebody else's body to fulfil your own wants, or gifting another human being to somebody, is not bodily autonomy.

@elvis86

Again I'd be interested to know your fertility history Redsuitcase?

I don't have kids, and won't be having them.

Does that make my argument more valid for you?

And as for what your implying, I also hold the unpopular opinion that people shouldn't have more than 2 children, for similar reasons as my anti-IVF stance. So yes, it does apply to heterosexuals, but thanks for trying to belittle my opinion by suggesting I'm homophobic.

Some couples are getting their children from surrogates in countries like Georgia and Ukraine. It's a purely commercial business which exploits ladies in difficult financial situations.
Pregnancies are not risk free so basically they are taking a gamble. I don't think the surrogate mothers are getting a sick payment for the rest of their lives if their health is affected anyhow.
I'm pregnant myself and I am seeing the bad side effects of pregnancy on my health. If I lose the baby and my fertility altogether I would never consider in a million years to ask a surrogate to carry a baby for me in exchange for money.
Adopting and fostering are beautiful alternatives.

but most women on this thread who don't support surrogacy aren't arguing from an over population perspective they're objecting to the commodifying of birth and the sale of human babies

You’ve missed my point totally. I was asking a specific point in regards to a specific poster, not every poster on this thread.

Claiming because it doesn't directly affect someone means they shouldn't have a voice is absurd

I’m not. I’m suggesting that IF your objection to fertility treatment is overpopulation as a PO discussed, it is rank hypocrisy if you have several children yourself.

To be fair I dont get the overpopulation argument. Surely surrogate born children aren't a huge proportion of the population.