To say there is no such thing as "altruistic" surrogacy?

[FannyCann]

To say there is no such thing as altruistic surrogacy and that this fiction is a massive state sponsored fraud?

The Law Commission has a Consultation to review surrogacy laws in the UK and you have til 11th October to respond.

There are 16 questions relating to payment, but they find themselves between a rock and a hard place. Admit women are paid for this “service” and recommend full commercial surrogacy puts the UK on a par with countries such as Uganda, the Ukraine and Russia. The UN Special Rapporteur links commercial surrogacy with the sale of babies. So of course we don’t do that in the UK. Oh no. We have “altruistic” surrogacy here. Surrogates are merely recompensed for expenses incurred as a result of the pregnancy, plus the odd “gift”.
So altruistic that from the Law Commioners own research into payments surrogates have been receiving, the median payment was £14,795.54 and 9.61% were paid more than £20,000.

Payments were claimed for things like takeaway meals and cleaners.

This is clearly State Sponsored Fraud. I challenge anyone to produce receipts to prove their pregnancy cost them £20,000

I also suggest that this puts surrogates in a tricky situation should HMRC or the benefits office ever take an interest in the origin of that £20k. It is very wrong for the law to encourage this fraud.

I ask you to look at the background and if you want to have a say into whether commercial surrogacy should be allowed in the UK please respond.

Here is a link to the Nordic Model Now template which you can download and use to respond in ten minutes.

https://nordicmodelnow.org/2019/08/30/how-to-respond-to-the-uk-surrogacy-consultation-in-10-easy-minutes//_

You can find moe background and discussion of the Consultation on this thread.

Building families through surrogacy: A new Law - Consultation
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3649812-building-families-through-surrogacy-a-new-law-consultation

It’s not homophobic, racist or unkind to people with fertility issues to object to commercial surrogacy

But oh how easy it is to pontificate over something that doesn’t affect you...

pinkcardi if pursuing surrogacy your friend and her partner would probably need an egg donor and / or a gestational surrogate.

Calling women who object to the purchase of babies homophobic and sexist is a lazy argument.

But you will also fight for women to be denied the choice of surrogacy. @timshelthechoice has it absolutely spot on.

Sanctimonious, bitter posters (all with their own kids, naturally), being completely dismissive of those people who can't carry their own children for whatever reason, and deliberately misrepresenting what is actually a beautiful thing for one person to do for another.
They'll be the same group of people (I would imagine) who have their own biological kids but then turn up on fertility threads telling people who are struggling that they should adopt because there's loads of kids that need homes. Of course they didn't do that, it's just something some sanctimonious types with kids do to remind other women that they're just not quite good enough or motherly enough.

Some people cannot comprehend the kindness that people can show

I have healthy eggs etc & uterus but had some problems carrying babies, for reasons doctors could not work out. After 3 miscarriages, my sister told me that of course if it came to it, she would carry an embryo for me (comprising my egg & my husband's sperm). Luckily we managed to carry our own baby just after this but I would be horrified if this sort of surrogacy were banned.

Reproductive and bodily autonomy is just that. It should be sacrosanct.

Yes, this means a woman can try to get pregnant if she chooses. It shouldn't mean other people have the right to commission a human being through the use of someone else's body. Some of the 'contracts' used in surrogacy are pretty scary if you believe in bodily autonomy. Like the one in the story linked further up, in a perfectly legal so called altruistic surrogacy case in the UK where two men promised to pay a very vulnerable woman an extra thousand if she needed a hysterectomy.

You’re assuming posters all have DC, haven’t experienced infertility, and/or are not close to people who have.

Couples or individuals wanting to pay surrogates in the UK or abroad are not the only “stakeholders” in this issue.

Easy to back surrogacy when it's never going to be your life or body at risk.

You’re assuming posters all have DC, haven’t experienced infertility, and/or are not close to people who have

I was, in the main referring to the OP who clearly states she has children.

In any event, I think that is why asking people of their history is relevant on subjects such as these.

@PegasusReturns Sorry I pm'd you multiple times as I am in the car (not driving obv) and going in and out of mobile signal so I didn't know it had been sent.

Yes, this means a woman can try to get pregnant if she chooses. It shouldn't mean other people have the right to commission a human being through the use of someone else's body.
So you'd have an issue if a family member volunteering to help another relative have a child. Or would you?
Because you claim it's up to a woman if she gets pregnant... But only certain women seem to have the right to choose to be pregnant and they can only become pregnant in a way you decide you're happy with.

@Loopytiles yes, I'd imagine they would need an egg donor. I would potentially donate mine in this scenario. Or, happy to carry a pregnancy with another egg donor if that's what's best.

I just don't see why this is something to object to. It's so far from the commercial 'surrogacy factories', which are clearly exploitative.

Surely, as with most things in life, there are good and bad variants but would wouldn't ban them all. You aim to stop the bad but not at the expense of the good.

Women have the right to get pregnant. They shouldn't have the right to 'gift' humans to others IMO. That goes beyond their bodily autonomy and to a third party.

Easy to condemn surrogacy when your fertility isn’t compromised.

ArabellaDoreenFig - I'm not missing your point.

You had no problem with surrogacy in principle and thought you might do it one day. You had a child and realised you couldn't. Ergo you think the whole thing is horrendous and should be banned.

Please do tell us what other personal feelings and opinions you believe should be enshrined in law for the rest of us to abide by.

Our country’s laws on men sperm donation, and UK or overseas women donating eggs and/or going through pregnancy is a matter of interest to the general public. Not just one group of people.

Easy to support surrogacy when it's not your health being risked.

Is your health being risked by surrogacy @Glitchstitch?

And yet every other European country recognises the potential emotional trauma in carrying a baby and then giving it away and bans surrogacy because they recognise the overriding rights of the child and that humans shouldn't be bought and sold.

@Alsohuman totally agree with you.

Loopytiles

Wouldn’t you agree when someone says they would support all surrogacy and IVF being banned, and one of the reasons cited is overpopulation, it is reasonable to question whether they have children?

I empathise with those who suffer with infertility and gay men who are desperate for a child, however, a child is not a human right and the more I've read about surrogacy the more I disagree with it.

People are so dismissive about pregnancy and child birth and the role of mother, who is not just an incubator but has created every cell in that babies body. Infant trauma is only just starting to be understood and this could have far reaching consequences for children born of surrogacy.

I don't think you should allow someone who hasn't been through pregnancy to be a surrogate and nor do I think that women with children of their own should put themselves at risk to give birth to a child for someone else. Whilst yes, altruistic surrogacy is amazing I just thi k it is selfish to ask another human beibg to risk their health and potentially life for you.

Women's health is risked by pregnancy. Women are left disabled, incontinent, with PND. A surrogate died recently in the States. Given the potential for exploitation even with so called altruistic surrogacy I'm allowed to be concerned about the well-being of such women.