To say that AIBU is not a green light to say what you want and is giving out the message that MN is no longer a place to come for support?

[AlternativePerspective]

More and more threads are being moved out of AIBU to other parts of the site because of the pasting the OP is getting on AIBU.

More and more I see posts from people saying that “if you didn’t want blunt answers you shouldn’t have posted in AIBU.

And yesterday, the ultimate, a thread where an OP needed genuine support having just realised she was in an abusive relationship being absolutely vilified on here, the thread was moved to relationships where the vilification continued to the point that the OP left the thread, and then the thread was deleted because it wasn’t in the spirit of the site. Is it any wonder that people feel they can’t admit to being abused when this is the kind of response they receive?

Yes, there are sometimes threads where an OP could be bluntly told that they are unreasonable, however there are threads where this is absolutely not appropriate, and a thread in AIBU doesn’t mean that this is a green light to wade in with your judgements and opinions and use whatever form of bullying you want to put your point across, sometimes to the detriment of the OP’s feelings.

I am generally of the view that if people are volatile then perhaps the net isn’t the best place to find support, however, many people do come here for support and mn has previously had a good reputation for being supportive in the face of domestic abuse. I no longer believe this to be the case.

I realise that AIBU is a good revenue generator for MN, however it is absolutely making mn look more like a fight club than anything else, and perhaps it’s time for *@mnhq@ to rethink this one?

But there are still laws surrounding what you say on the Internet. I remember the story of a woman who trolled the McCanns, saying they deserved what happened and she got into real trouble.

Likewise mn or anywhere else isn't really anonymous- the police can find every one of us if they want to - and so it's not a 'safe place' for us to vent our frustrations projected onto strangers. Likewise, there is professional help for that

Exactly 9ofpentangles. It’s not a safe space in any way, shape or form. MN seem to do a pretty good job of pulling comments that are abusive or threads that are full of bullying pretty quickly in my experience.

Another thing that baffles me is how strident some posters are against the way things are run on the forum: criticising everything about it including the moderation. It’s a commercial business. It’s not mandatory to participate. If you (they) don’t like the way it’s ran by the people who own it, they can very easily find lots of other forums to participate in.

Or we could make reasonable suggestions on how it could be better - as consumers of the site. Happens all the time in other businesses. After all, we make it what it is

Sure, that’s a positive thing to do. But when they’re not acted on it’s silly to keep complaining while also returning to use the forum time and time again.

@GammaStingRay

So by that logic, it would be silly of me to use my library or any other council services despite me repeatedly placing suggestions in their suggestions box and trying to improve the services as a user...

Look this is all pretty simple.

I read earlier a poster who said “Aibu is, and always has been, a nest of vipers. I'd be very sorry to see it changed“.

At least this person is being honest, despite the fact I disagree entirely with the sentiment.

They’re admitting it would make them sorry to see it stop being a bear pit. That there are people who come here, who aren’t bots or foreign trolls or whatever someone said, but British folk who want to see someone get a verbal pasting.

This is the truth and reality of it. Even though @HebeMumsnet reminded us a few posts ago of the ethos, their post was entirely ignored because some of the louder folk want this to be an arena of verbal combat

Silly is maybe the wrong word - disingenuous, maybe. But I don't think we have been vocal enough to date. There has been a shift lately not to tolerate trolling on here and generally Internet wide.

Of course, if we all boycotted, they'd have to change ,too...

I don't think it is a trivial issue and not just a case of 'shop elsewhere' as there are some vulnerable people out there

@9ofpentangles

I think that’s the problem as well, in that the genuinely vulnerable who need opinions are ignored, vilified for their spelling or phrasing, bullied for perceived victim hood or weakness, in some bizarre cases are victim blamed..:

So we’re left with

“AIBU for buying my third home?”
“AIBU to complain about the rising price of school uniforms?”
“AIBU - parking (diagram included! I know the rules”.

Etc

That there are people who come here, who aren’t bots or foreign trolls or whatever someone said, but British folk who want to see someone get a verbal pasting.

Well, the mean girls from school had to grow up and find someone else to belittle. People IRL wouldn't take it but online you can say what you want, under the guise of "Well what did you expect on AIBU, you deserve it".

I think that’s the problem as well, in that the genuinely vulnerable who need opinions are ignored, vilified for their spelling or phrasing, bullied for perceived victim hood or weakness, in some bizarre cases are victim blamed..:

Yes, exactly.

Like on the NetHuns thread where the OP bent over backwards to say their dislike of "xxx"/misspellings/"ur wiv the angles" had nothing to do with class or education levels and she was not sneering. Yeah right, good one.

It's like the online version of an exclusive private school - if you're not in a Jack Wills hoody and invited to the cool parties, you're not welcome.

GinDaddy, yes it would be silly to do that if there were literally hundreds of other libraries right on your doorstep which were run more in line with your preferences. To keep going back to the same library that you find lacking while complaining again and again.

They’re admitting it would make them sorry to see it stop being a bear pit. That there are people who come here, who aren’t bots or foreign trolls or whatever someone said, but British folk who want to see someone get a verbal pasting.* very well put. Except they’d never admit it because then that would make them look like arseholes.

And while I agree that MN is not a safe space to come to for support necessarily, neither is it a safe space to say what you want without thinking that there might be consequences.

I agree for instance that suicide posts should be taken down because random posters on the internet just don’t have the knowledge to deal with them.However, a suicide post is often left for a while before HQ can deal with it, which means that that poster is open to being abused, called all sorts, blamed for their situation and the list goes on.

Would the “posters should go to the rest of MN for support and not post in AIBU” really say that a poster talking about suicide deserved a verbal pasting for not having the forethought to not post in AIBU? Aibu which is, after all, the most visited subject on active and hence if a user comes here is likely to see it first and post there if they just want somewhere to talk?

And aibu is filtering into the rest of the site. I have seen posts elsewhere where posters have been abused and then someone comes on and says “this isn’t aibu.” Again, it doesn’t matter where it is. It’s no more acceptable to blame someone for not leaving their partner or to ask if they have SN (haven’t seen that one and hope it’s been taken down?) than it is on relationships or anywhere else.

I don't like reality tv, don't watch things like Jeremy Kyle, Love Island.
Unfortunately, that didn't help those who committed suicide because of their harsh treatment at the hands of the producers, the public, the press.

Mumsnet needs to take ownership in the same way these programmes have been asked to.

Mumsnet needs to take ownership in the same way these programmes have been asked to.

What more do you think MN could do other than have site guidelines and enforce them by banning posters/removing posts that are abusive when they see them?

They don't consistently. I have reported some awful posts only to be told they don't break their guidelines.

Equally I’ve seen relatively innocuous posts deleted. There’s no consistency in the moderation at all. And the guidelines are so woolly they could mean anything.

I agree OP. There's a vast difference between saying "YABU and here are the reasons why" and the sheer nasty relish with which some posters berate and insult the OP, or the effort they put in to trying to trip them up and catch them out.

It often feels as though some posters are too focussed on playing to the gallery and trying to become the next [insert the name of any of a number of posters renowned now or previously for being laconically witty/blunt] to remember that there is a real person behind the post. Either give useful advice and move on, report to MNHQ or scroll on by to the next interesting thread, but don't be an outsize cunt when there's simply no need.

I think when I first joined Mumsnet, aibu was a place for straight talking. You might not like what you heard but it wasn't mean spirited stuff. Now it has become, for some anyway, a chance to pile onto people. 'You sound like hard work' (or worse) when the poster has started a thread which sounds entirely reasonable and they are just looking for opinions.

I read earlier a poster who said “Aibu is, and always has been, a nest of vipers. I'd be very sorry to see it changed“.
My mistake- it used to be fairly common for posters to refer (in a joking way) to aibu as a nest of vipers. I hope someone can back me up on this. My fault for making an in-joke.
I'm neither an 'arsehole' nor a bully, but thanks for the character assassination alternative. As ever, some posters, like yourself, get nasty when disagreed with, as demonstrated in your language. But hey, you're one of the sensitive good guys aren't you, so anyone who disagrees with you is a bully and an 'arsehole'. Perhaps you'd like to check your attitude.

If I don't like a thread I'll not go on it. If it goes against the guidelines I'll report it. If I have a serious problem, as has happened in the past, I don't go on aibu. Got it?

Well, clearly you don’t like this thread. So what exactly are you doing here?

Perhaps you ought to start taking your own advice, don’t like what you see? Then don’t read it....

No, you're confusing me disagreeing with you with me not liking the thread. That's the whole point of aibu. Disagreeing with someone and not being bothered about disagreeing with them. As opposed to calling them a bully and an arsehole when they express an opinion counter to yours

I believe it would be more constructive to stick to the topic of original post, rather than derail from what is a serious issue about online bullying that is taking place on AIBU and sometimes other topics headers. I'm not tagging anyone in to that, just making a comment. Whether one or two people find it doesn't affect them (super, that's great), seems rather irrelevant in the scheme of multiple PPs on this thread alone evidencing real concern about often observing abuse and bullying of others or experiencing it themselves on very vulnerable topics including domestic abuse, MH, SN, death or other emotive subjects. And expressing concern that it hasn't been stopped by those posts being reported to MNHQ.

Anyone saying you should just report and move on hasn't RTFT as numerous PPs stated they did report abusive posts, which weren't removed and it hasn't stopped the abusive name calling, badgering of PPs or OP to "answer their questions", and online bullying which escalates as more PPs pile on to make increasingly personal attacks. My concern is about a general lack of duty of care and how it is no longer reliably consistent with MN's original supportive ethos/purpose for this site.

MN can be a wonderful support/source of information, advice and empathy, but it'a like playing Russian Roulette with half the barrell filled with live rounds, due to at times extremely poor site moderating even when reports are made.

Yes.
Black and white thinking is rife on AIBU which is encouraged by soliciting yes/no type of response through the title of the forum.
This goes against the nature of real life in almost all cases, creating a “baddie” and a “goodie”, and sets up battle lines accordingly.
Posters decide who is the “baddie” and “goodie” based on their own prejudices and their reading of the OP.
They then post either victim-blaming or “you go girl” responses.
In most situations in life this highly confrontational approach is not actually going to help the OP.
I think AIBU has become the Jeremy Kyle show and MN should be ashamed. It brings the site into disrepute.

I think several posters have come to the site with rather elevated ideas of what it should be. AIBU isn't here for counselling, or support. It's not here for bullying either.
If you don't like the title of AIBU because it solicits binary thinking, why don't you raise this on Site Stuff Ciara? In fact, surely all of these complaints about AIBU should be raised there.

I rarely post at all or start conversations
Main areas I lurk in are AIBU, style and beauty, and elderly parents
Occasionally dip in to relationships, chat and the littertray, eBay etc
Of 2 AIBU I posted in recent times zi was told I was very unreasonable and needed to change my behaviour - I didn’t I’m happy and we all live etc
Other I was told I was not unreasonable and many supportive and validating comments were added
Personally I only post or reply to conversations if I think I can help somehow