To say that AIBU is not a green light to say what you want and is giving out the message that MN is no longer a place to come for support?

[AlternativePerspective]

More and more threads are being moved out of AIBU to other parts of the site because of the pasting the OP is getting on AIBU.

More and more I see posts from people saying that “if you didn’t want blunt answers you shouldn’t have posted in AIBU.

And yesterday, the ultimate, a thread where an OP needed genuine support having just realised she was in an abusive relationship being absolutely vilified on here, the thread was moved to relationships where the vilification continued to the point that the OP left the thread, and then the thread was deleted because it wasn’t in the spirit of the site. Is it any wonder that people feel they can’t admit to being abused when this is the kind of response they receive?

Yes, there are sometimes threads where an OP could be bluntly told that they are unreasonable, however there are threads where this is absolutely not appropriate, and a thread in AIBU doesn’t mean that this is a green light to wade in with your judgements and opinions and use whatever form of bullying you want to put your point across, sometimes to the detriment of the OP’s feelings.

I am generally of the view that if people are volatile then perhaps the net isn’t the best place to find support, however, many people do come here for support and mn has previously had a good reputation for being supportive in the face of domestic abuse. I no longer believe this to be the case.

I realise that AIBU is a good revenue generator for MN, however it is absolutely making mn look more like a fight club than anything else, and perhaps it’s time for *@mnhq@ to rethink this one?

YANBU.
I got called a cunt the other day, for a mild opinion on a parking type thread!

The abused lady thread that was taken down was particularly sad, because while I do think people were genuinely caring some posters showed it inappropriately by calling her out for not leaving immediately and saying she was putting her child at risk. The lady concerned became extremely defensive and I really hope it hasn't put her off seeking the support she desperately needs.
It's all too easy to say LTB when you haven't been in that position.

It's all too easy to say LTB when you haven't been in that position

So true!!! It took me 8 years to leave an abusive drunk husband.
Sometimes you have nowhere to leave to!!! I had to live in a woman's refuge and then onto a hostel with a baby for just over 2 years! Left with no money to my name and 1 bag to a friend's sofa.
It's scary and an awful feeling and even then I still thought of going back to him because leaving was so hard!!!!

Some people will never understand and will just think oh just leave it's not hard.
It bloody can be!!!!

@Roozy123
from a compadre

Yep you're absolutely right. I came on here for advice asking if me or my OH were BU. It was a pretty lighthearted OP on my part but I got loads of nasty comments which were completely uncalled for and I was called all sorts. I really couldn't understand where it a came from. It was like everyone who read it had a bad day decided to unload their shit on me. I didn't reply to any of it in the hopes it'd die down quickly. I've name changed since changed my name and wouldn't dream of posting anything again.

@Twillow
Thank u

I read your entire thread gingerginger2.

It stood out in my mind and I remember it well, due to the massive shitty pile on from several posters (including you) who disagreed with her statement that she wouldn’t, ultimately, force her child to be friends with anyone. Thankfully as the thread progressed more supporters came out to defend her and point out the hypocrisy in going after her. She stayed very calm and eloquent for the entire 1000 pages despite being goaded (asked question after question then being attacked for responding) pretty much incessantly.

Several posters called into question your judgment of a child for moving away from a situation in which she felt uncomfortable and like her personal space was being invaded.

It was a valuable topic but sadly a few key contributors were unable to take anyone else’s opinions on board and so it turned pretty nasty. So please don’t come here and try paint it as something different to how it went down and yourself as some kind of victim of ableism. You got a great many reasoned thoughtful responses, that you asked for, and did the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and going ‘lalala can’t hear you’.

One should seek to understand as well as be understood.

There are certain subjects that bring out the worst in people. I wince when I see a Mil thread and some of the LTB responses leave me wondering why people get married at all. The ones I really and truly hate though are the threads involving religion. The rudeness and disrespect on those absolutely sickens me. Not because I’m remotely religious but respect for other people’s right to believe is fundamental to me.

Evening, everyone. Just wanted to pop by and say we are reading and making notes about points made here.

While we do believe that if you ask 'AIBU?' you have to be prepared to be told 'yes, you are' we have always said that we don't believe AIBU to be a bear pit and our talk guidelines apply in just the same way here as they do across the boards.

If you see posts that are personal attacks or just plain mean, do always report them (we don't necessarily see them if they aren't reported). We do try to move threads to somewhere we think the OP might receive the best advice and we try to keep an eye on them after moving, too. But, again, if you notice a thread that is just turning into a bunfight, please do let us know.

We always say that Mumsnet's primary objective is to make parents' lives easier and to be a place for parents to find and give support. If it's clear that a thread entirely goes against that grain, we will delete it. We know it can be a woolly area sometimes (and, yes, sometimes we get it wrong) but we always appreciate hearing your views so please do just hit the report button if you've any concerns.

We'll continue to read this and take notes anyway. Apologies that we can't reply to all posts but we are reading carefully and do appreciate the time taken to make any suggestions.

gammaraysting,

Without rerunning the entire thread, the point was that it was the assumption that the thread was about “forcing friendship” that was one of the offensive things about some of the responses. Despite it being repeatedly explained, it was still assumed that parents of disabled children wanted “forced friendships”. Which was really upsetting. Also the focus on “personal space” was upsetting, as it was jumped on and used to stereotype our children and justify excluding them.

The poster that posted repeatedly may have seemed “calm and eloquent” to you. To others she was really offensive and upsetting.

As stated by MNHQ in the thread.

And yes I did get some great reasoned responses, which I graciously thanked posters for. Until the whole thread filled up and I was unable to respond because it was full. I had written a response to an aspergic poster and was unable to post it because the whole thread was full by the time i’d had the chance to Write it.

YANBU. It does get pointlessly vicious at times. There was a recent thread where the OP had been abused by her husband for some time and at one incident she got upset. She was accused of turning on the tears to be manipulative and compared to Roxanne Pallett. That was a horrible thread; if someone is being abused and needs to leave their relationship they need practical advice and support, not needlessly spiteful comments.

finally someone has said it! It won’t stop them though, I genuinely believe some people just come on here to dish out bitchy comments.

Some people don't seem to realise that even if an OP has said something not nice, if they post "You sound like a nasty bullshitter", they're being exactly the same if not worse. Personal insults are the lowest of the low and never necessary.

And anyone who says "they deserved to have their arse handed to them" is condoning bullying and victim-blaming. No-one deserves abuse.

Yabu. The problem is posters automatically going to aibu instead of, let's say, the relationships board. Aibu is, and always has been, a nest of vipers. I'd be very sorry to see it changed just because some posters are foolish enough to post in the wrong forum . oh so that makes it ok to pile in then? If they’d only posted their thread somewhere else you’d have posted supportively but because it’s AIBU that gives you permission to call them all sorts? (Not you personally but one in general obv).

That is just abuse justification. Like hell would someone come on to AIBU and dish out a load of abuse and then go on to relationships for instance and be Uber supportive. Not without having two identities anyway, one for the abuse and one for the mock support.....

And to say you’d be sorry to see AIBU change from a nest of vipers says far more about you than anything else....

I rarely if ever come on MN for support, even if I post in the supposedly gentler relationships board.

If I want an honest opinion/ different perspectives it's great, and I have learned a lot about how my actions/behaviour may be perceived but I never post when I'm not prepared to be criticized, been stung too many times!

For support I'd go to other forums.

I have never, ever found MN to be supportive.

If you come on here asking for advice but then say slightly the wrong thing/are slightly in the wrong, people pile in with personal insults then say you "deserve" it.

Every time I've come for advice I've ended up asking for the thread to be deleted because I couldn't sleep all night. I only come on here when I'm unemployed or at a low in my life. AIBU is like middle class Jeremy Kyle.

Yes, for support I would probably go to Reddit, TheStudentRoom or a counsellor. Much more friendly and neutral responses. There are ways of telling people they're wrong without saying "You sound like a fucking cunt, what did you expect, no wonder you have no friends you cow "

Youre absolutely right. Mumsnet is not really a safe place. It can so easily go either way.

There's a thread right now where OP asked for a advice and said she doesn't like the advice/it's wrong. That's absolutely her prerogative, what with being thread starter. I don't have to like strangers advice either.

Reasonable response: OK, no problem. I don't really have any other advice to give so I'm going to leave the thread and read something else.

MN response: You deserve to be bullied, no wonder your colleagues don't like you, well you've been rude so you deserved it back, this is HILARIOUS/made my morning, what a fun thread, do you have special needs OP?

It's actually disgusting. I don't know why I ventured off the Love Island chat onto AIBU!

I don't know what sort of person could find it "fun" watching someone be piled on. Do people have no empathy? People posting online for advice probably have no-one in real life to ask, they're feeling vulnerable and unstable and may have MH issues. How is it "fun" to imagine someone sat at home having to read these comments and feeling even shitter about themselves?

What actually has to happen for MN to do anything about it?

I commented on this thread about being treated like this on Friday - I have posted today on another thread that I read over the weekend and had been pondering why I sometimes end my posts with an x - I googled it to see if there was any significance - I found a meaning and I thought yep that is me

I posted this in good faith - right know I seem to be in self reflective mood - and fuck me one of the posters who was attacking me on my own thread has now attacked me on this other thread telling me this is not why I do it!

WTAF!

Some nasty nasty people around these days!

*oh so that makes it ok to pile in then? If they’d only posted their thread somewhere else you’d have posted supportively but because it’s AIBU that gives you permission to call them all sorts? (Not you personally but one in general obv).

That is just abuse justification. Like hell would someone come on to AIBU and dish out a load of abuse and then go on to relationships for instance and be Uber supportive. Not without having two identities anyway, one for the abuse and one for the mock support.....

And to say you’d be sorry to see AIBU change from a nest of vipers says far more about you than anything else....*

I think you're making a lot of assumptions about me, which makes you as bad as those you criticise, FWIW.

I've been on MN for a long time, having name changed a couple of times when I was criticised by other posters. And did I think MN was at fault and had to change? No, I realised that, if I wanted support, I'd go on Relationships, or Spirituality, or whatever. If I wanted light-hearted chat, I'd go on Chat, MN is a large site, with lots of available threads. Whenever I need support, I go on the appropriate thread, and always get useful, non-judgemental support.

AIBU is not a 'safe space' (thank god). I never abuse other posters, I but cannot understand why posters automatically go on AIBU for everything. AIBU is the on-line version of going down the pub in the evening.

I see that a lot: 'this is aibu, you shouldn't have posted that here if you wanted proper support.'

Yanbu. Some posters only give harsh answers it is their whitty sense of humour
I still think of the poster who was an alcoholic let down calling a suicidal helpline and vilified for using bad language in her OP. She made an Irish reference to her reason for liking the word fuck.
Most of the thread ignored her saying she wanted to end her life, the thread was pulled, I searched for her afterwards as I'd previously enjoyed her on a different thread but she was gone or name changed
I do hope she got help.

AIBU is not a 'safe space' (thank god). I never abuse other posters, I but cannot understand why posters automatically go on AIBU for everything. AIBU is the on-line version of going down the pub in the evening

Yes.

I’ve seen some really weird threads by people who seem to genuinely think MN is essentially a form of crowdsourced therapy and should therefore be held to the same expectations as a therapy session. Calling it a ‘safe space’ (or complaining that it doesn’t feel like one), complaining that newspapers lift threads for cheap news stories etc. I’ve actually seen posters start saying that MN is breaching their legal rights by ‘allowing’ the papers to do this.

I think because it’s presented as a cosy place to chat, people regularly forget all MN is is a forum for literally anyone with internet access to join in and discuss things. There’s zero expectation of privacy nor should there be. There shouldn’t be any misconceptions that the only responses will be hand holds, complete unquestioning and unwavering empathy etc. AIBU and the rest of the sub forums is the equivalent of standing in the middle of your local bus shelter, shouting out your private information and asking for anyone passing by to give their two cents. But because it’s participated in from the comfort of your own home and there’s a log in function, people mistakenly believe it’s a substitute for real professional help that is bound by codes of conduct and confidentiality and then get upset when that’s not the case. Literally anyone with internet access can join in and has every right to.