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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think it is now inevitable that Scotland will become independent?

402 replies

amandacarnet · 30/08/2019 07:58

With brexit and the increasing move to the right wing, I think it is now just a matter of time until Scotland becomes independent.

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Nyx · 01/09/2019 21:23

Qualcheck - Scotland is still in the Union. We don't get to have things as we want them at the moment. Other independent countries do things better, do they? That's what Scotland aspires to. Not very fair to compare just yet. And "I realise England's not perfect" - you don't say?!

LatteLove · 01/09/2019 21:24

Don't believe all the talk of 'hateful invective', we Scots can have discussion and referendum in a decent and like minded manner

There was a lot of hateful invective on Twitter where I was quite active at the time and places like the STV news pages. People suggested I had “no right” to call myself Scottish or wave a St Andrews flag because I voted no.

I don’t know how I’d vote next time. The concerns about voting yes remain but I’m angry that Scotland has been totally ignored in this whole Brexit shitshow and I look at how incompetent the WM government is now, and the callousness and far right attitudes becoming prevalent in England and think fuck it, let’s just get away

Nyx · 01/09/2019 21:24

And qualcheck, how do you feel about the uncertainty surrounding Brexit?

MorrisZapp · 01/09/2019 21:26

Yeah fuck you, David Attenborough. I'm aff to catch River City. Fleabag? Posh English cow. And you can stick Broadchurch up your erse. We'll come up with loads of better stuff. The reason we haven't so far is because we don't get creative until we get political independence. We're just waiting to unleash the forces.

Calyx72 · 01/09/2019 21:26

Qualcheck - lucky you don't live here since you hate it so much. Same with many unionists it seems - can't stand Scotland and take every opportunity to talk us down.

Tensixtysix · 01/09/2019 21:28

Scotland would be invaded within a few weeks of leaving the UK.
Amazes me that the Scots hate the English and Welsh so much, they'd rather be ruled by Europeans.

So much empty space. You don't have enough people to support yourselves.

LatteLove · 01/09/2019 21:28

Is ‘Scottish Independence’ purely independence from parliament?

Yes. The SNP’s position (historically at least, not sure if it’s changed and I didn’t read the white paper) is that the queen would be the head of state. The union of crowns and of the parliaments were entirely separate. The union of crowns took place more than 100 years before the Parliaments.

Nyx · 01/09/2019 21:30

Morris, I love David Attenborough. I'm fairly certain nobody would intend to exclusively watch programming from any one country. Why are you being so goady?

LatteLove · 01/09/2019 21:30

Amazes me that the Scots hate the English and Welsh so much, they'd rather be ruled by Europeans

I don’t hate the English and Welsh, I have English parentage in fact. I do feel angry that we didn’t vote for any of this Brexit shit or the heartless incompetent fuckers in government and yet we have to just suck it up.

pamperramper · 01/09/2019 21:32

Improving the education system would help with producing home grown talent. Every child should be stretched, which isn't happening now.

pamperramper · 01/09/2019 21:33

We don't have to assume that, post independence, the SNP would remain in power.

LatteLove · 01/09/2019 21:36

Do you have the breadth and depth of political talent post Independence?

The U.K. isn’t exactly doing well on that score either! I’d always thought Westminster politicians were a cut above Scottish ones. Not now, have you seen the absolute eejits in the UK government?

amandacarnet · 01/09/2019 21:41

Who would invade Scotland?

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QualCheckBot · 01/09/2019 21:42

Calyx72 Qualcheck - lucky you don't live here since you hate it so much. Same with many unionists it seems - can't stand Scotland and take every opportunity to talk us down.

I lived there for years and I just didn't like it. I didn't hate it, but unless you are very, very Scottish or want to live somewhere away from it all, its a hard culture to get used to. I'm mixed race, and I did find a lot of the comments about my appearance hard to deal with and rather rude. But what I found worse is in most European countries, you can have an interesting discussion about the problems (and attributes) of their countries without it descending into a childish diatribe where you will be accused of "hating" them or told to leave the country.

I also cannot abide the way that Sturgeon and Salmond and many other Scottish politicians are so very, very aggressive. They would be an utter embarrassment on the world stage. Kezia Dugdale is a breath of fresh air although I don't like her politics. Alex Salmond in particular seems to have descended into a misbelief that calling people little funny Scottish names like "bawbag" is a very clever way of discussing independence. And why do so many Scottish first ministers end up being sacked or having to resign under a cloud? Donald Dewar is the only one who left office not to be tainted by scandal!

As for the universities, they are chronically under-funded and extremely low contact hours with students are now the norm because theres just not enough staff to go round. Do you know that there is so little oversight of universities in Scotland that several Scottish university principals require all academic articles to be run past their departments first? If you control the output that academics produce, then you have a real problem in a country. Edinburgh University tried to give all its lecturing staff a 10% pay cut and loss of final salary pension schemes, which is why they went on strike earlier this year, affecting students' exams. Numbers of Scottish students going onto university are lower than ever because the universities need foreign students to make up their funding shortfall. Edinburgh is now full of new build student housing complexs because the university has borrowed so as to build it and benefit from the rents from said foreign students in years to come. Even college access courses and higher education for adult learners has been reduced due to lack of funding. Its a bit of a mess under the Scottish Government.

I often think its a shame that most Scots live in the central belt, because the rest of Scotland is so much nicer. But it lacks half decent transport links and there are hardly any jobs, and the SNP wants to centralise everything. Of course its the faults of the Clearances that all that culture was lost and I do think it would have been a fantastic country if that had not happened.

amandacarnet · 01/09/2019 21:45

And has no one noticed that our tv is actually tv from around the world? I watch al jazheera news as it is the best,unless it is about Qatar and its friends. I watch Scandinavia dramas, I watch programmes from America. I understand that a lot of older people may watch traditional tv viewing of bbc news, soaps and quiz shows, but it is not the future.

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amandacarnet · 01/09/2019 21:48

So much of the so called debate about possible independence is of a very low standard. You can see iron this thread. Lies, half truths and exaggerations.

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HirplesWithHaggis · 01/09/2019 21:49

And why do so many Scottish first ministers end up being sacked or having to resign under a cloud?

That would be Labour's Henry McLeish? There's only been Dewar, McLeish, McConnell (now Lord), Salmond and the current incumbent, none of them were sacked or resigned in disgrace.

amandacarnet · 01/09/2019 21:53

At one time I would have agreed that politicians who had the skills, went to Westminster. I no longer think this is the case although I am not sure when it changed. Maybe the Westminster politicians just got worse? Because the people now in charge are totally incompetent

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Nyx · 01/09/2019 21:57

"unless you are very, very Scottish or want to live somewhere away from it all, its a hard culture to get used to. I'm mixed race, and I did find a lot of the comments about my appearance hard to deal with and rather rude. "
Where on earth were you? Where the culture was so hard for you to get used to? I'm in Glasgow and people of mixed race abound, lots of them are Scottish themselves. I'm sorry you got lots of comments about your appearance. Was this a long time ago?

And do you always bring up a country's problems in discussions when you're there? Depending on how you're doing it I'm not surprised if you've got people's backs up Wink

Plus, when was the last time you looked into Scottish politics? Neither Kezia nor Alex Salmond are currently particularly relevant?

QualCheckBot · 01/09/2019 21:58

Seriously Hirples? 60% of them have been mired in scandal.

Dewar (sainthood, not applicable)
McLeish (resigned due to Officegate, a "muddle not a fiddle" of sub-letting parliamentary offices: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Officegate)
McConnell (resigned after Fraud Squad called in after constituency financial irregularities, his wife Bridget was also involved in similar controversy involving Glasgow City Council although remarkably, and surprisingly, cleared)
Salmond (currently charged with sexual assault and attempted rape www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jan/24/alex-salmond-scotlands-former-first-minister-arrested)
Sturgeon (referred herself to a conduct panel to check whether she breached the ministerial code in her dealings with her predecessor: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-49331140)

Its not a great record.

QualCheckBot · 01/09/2019 21:59

Nyx Where on earth were you? Where the culture was so hard for you to get used to? I'm in Glasgow and people of mixed race abound, lots of them are Scottish themselves. I'm sorry you got lots of comments about your appearance. Was this a long time ago?

Edinburgh.

Sexism.

2 - 4 years ago.

Nyx · 01/09/2019 22:02

Is Edinburgh more sexist than anywhere else? Is Scotland more sexist than the rest of the UK?

amandacarnet · 01/09/2019 22:05

It is a long time since I have lived in Edinburgh, but even back then there seemed to be as many English people as Scottish people living there. Although it is beautiful it is not a place I particularly like living. It is far more conservative, so yes probably more racism and sexism.

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amandacarnet · 01/09/2019 22:06

But I dislike bath for the same reason. But I don't conflate bath with England.

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QualCheckBot · 01/09/2019 22:07

Nyx I'm sorry you got lots of comments about your appearance.

And thank you for saying sorry, you are the only person that ever has.

Flowers

I feel like crying.

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