Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think it is now inevitable that Scotland will become independent?

402 replies

amandacarnet · 30/08/2019 07:58

With brexit and the increasing move to the right wing, I think it is now just a matter of time until Scotland becomes independent.

OP posts:
ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 01/09/2019 18:10

Free stuff

"Free" stuff is great, and yes it is paid for by the taxpayer.

Prescriptions and a well educated population are fairly important in a country don't you think? I'm proud that in Scotland everyone is able to access important things like that - it is kind of what the state is for, and one of the many things WM fucks up.

ArabellaDoreenFig · 01/09/2019 18:11

My point is that 'British Army' isn't something that employs Scottish soldiers. It's a UK army that comprises soldiers from the 4 nations

That’s not quite right, the British Army is made up of soldiers from all over the world not just the ‘4 nations’, there are soldiers from Fiji, Trinidad and Tobago, South Africa etc.

And they are Her Majesty’s Forces not the United Kingdom Forces. If Scotland leaves the UK and does not recognise the monarch as their head of state then I think the most likely scenario would be the Scottish Regiments would be disbanded and personnel absorbed into other regiments.

StreetwiseHercules · 01/09/2019 18:15

“If Scotland leaves the UK and does not recognise the monarch as their head of state”

FFS. This is not on the table.

sippingteaquietly · 01/09/2019 18:32

faceorembrace

Both Yes and No posters were taken down. I know of 2 people who’s windows had bricks thrown at them (one had a no poster and one had a yes poster).

My dad was a Unionist as were many of his friends and not once did I hear of any reports of them being run off the streets. It was more likely the other way around. “Massive amount of intimidation and aggression to unionists” don’t make me laugh, the night following the referendum particularly in George’s Square in Glasgow was terrible with unionists attacking people with Scottish flags etc, I remember one man tacking a young girl to the ground and ripping the Scottish flag from her hands and burning it. The amount of orange order men out that night was ridiculous and in Glasgow alone pubs and restaurants had to close their doors to the amount of people trying to take over with Union Jacks in a violent aggressive way.

Seriously the unionists would NEVER be intimidated by anyone.

If you have experienced racial hate because you are English, maybe you need to move to a better area. Not all of Scotland hates the English infact the vast majority don’t bother with the English, they just hate the government. I for one would welcome you with open arms Flowers

I voted to leave and would have loads of discussions with my dad over it who voted to stay.

Nyx · 01/09/2019 18:51

People who think that all Scotland has is oil and gas Hmm
I was discussing this on a different thread a while back, I'll just paste what I said then as I'm on a phone and cba typing it all out again:

Scotland has a lot to give. We are one of the most beautiful countries in the world, with a friendly population. We have good hospitals, schools and universities. We are blessed with lots and lots of water, wind power, we have oil reserves, gas reserves, hydro power, farmland, sea area, forestry, fishing waters, tourism, exports. We have resources that many other countries can only dream of. And we have a small population. On a per capita basis Scotland could be very rich. I've said before, we have good resources and a small population, the very recipe for success. Hell, we may even be able to pay a pension that isn't the lowest in the developed world if we are not propping up the UK and its extravagances.

Nyx · 01/09/2019 18:57

Also, people who say the SNP are constantly forcing votes on the subject - eh? Have I missed something? We had a vote in 2014 and so far, that's been it.

Yes, they've always said there should be another vote when there's a majority in favour of one. I don't see the problem. They put it in their manifesto - another vote in the case of a material change in circumstances, such as being taken out of the EU against our wishes. They won the election. Polls are now in favour of another vote. I personally think it's the least WM could do, honour the wishes of the Scottish people and facilitate a vote. Seriously what do the SNP have to do?

StoneofDestiny · 01/09/2019 18:57

Within the first hour of any visit back to Scotland in recent years, someone is telling us how brilliant Scotland is.The reason ? Free prescriptions, free uni, etc.etc

What a ridiculous view you have to dismiss a high priority on social care and education as 'free stuff'. It's like dismissing the 'free' NHS and 'free' schooling, available all over the UK as 'free stuff'.

Surprise - our taxes pays for these things and the devolved government decides how to allocate the income from tax.

Yes - stay away another 30 years.

ArabellaDoreenFig · 01/09/2019 18:58

So what would Scottish independence look like then ?

I was working in Scotland during the run up to Indy ref and was under the impression that Scottish independence meant independence from both parliament and the crown.

Also worth noting that the people I worked with never ever made me feel awkward about being English, but we didn’t discuss Indyref much - the majority were for No.

Is ‘Scottish Independence’ purely independence from parliament?

HirplesWithHaggis · 01/09/2019 19:02

While I personally would like to see the monarchy abolished in an independent Scotland, that's a matter to be decided by the people and isn't included in the referendum question afaik.

StreetwiseHercules · 01/09/2019 19:04

Of course it is. Its to become a sovereign state independent of Westminster. Nothing to do with getting rid of the Monarchy. She’s the queen of Canada, Australia and New Zealand as well isn’t she?

PersonaNonGarter · 01/09/2019 19:11

While I personally would like to see the monarchy abolished in an independent Scotland, that's a matter to be decided by the people and isn't included in the referendum question afaik.

There is no referendum question. And No prospect of one soon.

There’s loads of TALK. Talk sells newspapers and keeps radio shows in business. But it is law that mandates elections.

ArabellaDoreenFig · 01/09/2019 19:13

Thanks for answering. I don’t know what I was imagining was going on during campaigning but it turns out I got the wrong end of the stick!

Nyx · 01/09/2019 19:55

My vision of an independent Scotland is of Scotland being a normal smallish country making decisions by itself for itself; with our TV news being filmed in Scotland, and about Scotland and its place in the world; having political parties in our own parliament all of which are trying to do their best for Scotland and its people; hopefully being part of the EU but at least having our membership decided by our own population; having ports in Scotland that we can use for our own imports and exports; not sending all of our taxes and revenues to the country next door, getting pocket money back and having money spent on our behalf by WM on things that we don't want (Trident) or need (HS2); our own values being behind decisions on where and when to go to war; our own brand on our food and drink, not having to contemplate being sold out for a trade deal with the USA and having our NHS privatised.

Calyx72 · 01/09/2019 20:06

That's what I want too Nyx

amandacarnet · 01/09/2019 20:33

Arab Ella I am wide aware of that. Just as I am well aware that they are trained civilians out rescuing people using boats and canoes. The army have helicopters though which few private civilians trained to do rescue work have. But I know near me when places are flooded both army and lots of trained civilians do the work. I know that as I know people who are on permanent standby for this.
Emergency plans are drawn up by every local authority of how they will deal with emergencies and who will be involved.

OP posts:
MorrisZapp · 01/09/2019 20:57

Oh god no! Spare us from parochial news programming! You want the next US election analysed for you by Jackie Bird?

This is actually one of the reasons I voted no. We have a news programme, it's called Reporting Scotland. Christ, it's a big old world out there. We may have some media heavyweights who started their careers here (Kirsty Wark, Andrew Neil etc) but why would they give up London level wages and exposure to broadcast to an audience smaller than Yorkshire?

Soon as any fresh talent comes up, they'll fuck off to London too. Why wouldn't they.

CreamCol0uredP0nies · 01/09/2019 20:59

Some charming responses.

While there is still so much poverty, and poor health outcomes, I don’t understand the priority to give everyone, regardless of income, free prescriptions, for example.

As for free tuition fees, you know that the number of Scottish students is capped.
How many of these students have gone to the better state schools or private schools and have had parents who benefited from free university themselves?
What about young people from more disadvantaged backgrounds?
Scottish universities need the fees paid by foreign, EU and English students.

Free tuition fees for everyone would be great but it isn’t affordable.
The fees system is far from perfect in England but I think there’s a great deal of hypocrisy in Scotland about this.

As I said before, the safety net should be there for those that really need it.
I would be embarrassed to be in receipt of this state funding.
I wouldn’t need it and would prefer it went to someone who really did.

Scotland is still the beautiful country it always was.
I just don’t recognise or understand SNP priorities.

Nyx · 01/09/2019 21:06

"Oh god no! Spare us from parochial news programming!"

The cringe is very strong in this one. It's depressing. God. It's normal for countries to have their own media. Not fucking 'parochial'.

Nyx · 01/09/2019 21:08

Seriously Morris. Do you think that Scotland and Scottish people are capable of doing our succeeding at anything on our own? Bloody hell.

PersonaNonGarter · 01/09/2019 21:12

Nyx - our country is small.

It is normal for big talent to want a bigger audience. Some will stay some won’t. I like Jackie Bird but I agree that I want my big politics stories brought to me by Andrew Marr and Laura Kussenberg and Andrew Neil and Kirsty Wark - and I don’t blame them for going to London.

StreetwiseHercules · 01/09/2019 21:15

“Nyx - our country is small.“

No it is not. Whether you measure by population or by physical size, Scotland is a medium sized country.

MorrisZapp · 01/09/2019 21:16

Argh now the 'cringe' . I'd forgotten all this crap.

Seriously, you want your main nightly news to come from Edinburgh? You think Reporting Scotland and Channel 4 news are a comparable product? There's a Scottish news hour on the Scottish channel now too. Nobody watches it.

How many Scots buy the National? Or the Daily Record? Compared to UK newspapers? You may prefer a localised news service but most people have a broader outlook.

Everyone would just use streaming services to watch Bake Off, Love Island, Peaky Blinders etc. Radio 2 would be replaced with what? We'd all still look to London for our media and anyone who thinks otherwise is absolutely delusional.

QualCheckBot · 01/09/2019 21:16

I moved out of Scotland a few years back as I wasn't comfortable with the amount of uncertainty concerning its future. I also felt uncomfortable with the parochial, intolerant and blinkered thinking so many SNP supporters indulge in.

As a bit of an expert on the EU, it was really getting quite annoying to be told nonsense about Scotland joining the EU when it clearly doesn't meet the accession criteria and won't do for quite some time. The prospect of a country with no written constitution, a weak separation of powers, a unicameral parliament which is overseen by itself and with EU membership with its fundamental human rights protection (more detailed than and in addition to the ECHR, its where our Freedom of information rights come from for instance) was not something that appealed. The fact that tax has gone up and the economy, particularly in Aberdeen, has not exactly prospered since has reinforced the view that I got that one right.

I'm also not very comfortable with the behaviour that seems prevalent in so many places. In Scotland, as a single female doing a lot of things alone, such as cycling, I did seem to get rather a lot of abuse from NEDS and children. There are a hell of a lot of abusive, deeply sexist men. Its also far easier to get decent job opportunities outwith Scotland. I do realise its not perfect in England, but I've lived in a few different countries in the world and I think a lot of Scots don't realise that things are done a lot better in many of them.

I am rather fed up of hearing that the EU will be desperate for Scotland to join because its such a "beautiful" country. As if there were no other beautiful countries in the world. Most Scots don't live in the beautiful parts of Scotland but instead live in the not very beautiful Central Belt where the jobs are, but where, sadly, the transport infrastructure is dreadful. I also got very fed up with hearing how pro EU the SNP is when in reality they pass a great deal of legislation which actually contravenes EU competition law and fundamental rights and are often up before the CJEU. For instance, the Scottish Government's last White Paper on Independence contained a section which explained why they opposed the extension of Freedom of Information to Environmental Issues, as they thought it would create too much work and "no-one outside Scotland would be interested in making such a request". It was laughably incompetent and scary at the same time.

An independent Scotland is likely to be a very socialist, high tax state, with high dependence on welfare, high levels of "poverty" which 100 years from now would still be blamed on England, with rather too much parliament rhetoric about how wonderful it is while the reality is spending 3 1/2 hours to get from Edinburgh to Glasgow in rush hour because the train hasn't turned up yet again. Very controlling legislation on what you can and cannot do. Possibly a bit like Lithuania. Not terrible but not typically Northern European either. If it were a bit like a northern Switzerland, for sure I'd want to live there. But its not.

HirplesWithHaggis · 01/09/2019 21:17

A newly-independent Scotland will have the eyes of the world on it, at least for the first while. I have no doubt we could attract all the talent we don't already have. Imaginative, creative, smart people keen to help build a new nation.

Calyx72 · 01/09/2019 21:23

Morris. You can choose to watch what you want. I want a Scottish broadcaster and Scottish news etc as well as the choice to watch anything else. The current BBC programming is designed to make Scotland think it needs Westminster. After independence that won't be the case but you can watch whatever news you like.

I'm not 'delusional' because I don't agree with your views Smile

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is closed and is no longer accepting replies. Click here to start a new thread.