To think it is now inevitable that Scotland will become independent?

[amandacarnet]

With brexit and the increasing move to the right wing, I think it is now just a matter of time until Scotland becomes independent.

“Where was that said?”

Just google it.

“Where was that said?”

Just google it.

I did but couldnt find it. Where's your proof?

Did Scandinavia cease to exist when Norway became independent

I have just been to the countries of Scandinavia funnily enough. At the moment, we are called the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

We have the UK Parliament. When Scotland leaves, I don't really think we can include Great Britain in that name, can we?

You can call yourself the United Kingdom of England Wales & Northern Ireland for a while. Great Britain will still exist.

"United Kingdom of England Wales & Northern Ireland for a while"

Maybe drop the United bit.....

From the most basic google search:

“On 29 May 2013 Miroslav Singer, the Governor of the Czech National Bank (the Czech Republic's central bank) stated that in his professional opinion the Czech Republic will not adopt the euro before 2019.[18] In December 2013, the Czech government approved a recommendation from the Czech National Bank and Ministry of Finance against setting a formal target date for euro adoption or joining ERM II“

And

“The Andrej Babiš' Cabinet that was formed following the 2017 legislative election does not plan to proceed with euro adoption within its term.”

If no one can say when or how there will be a referendum, then discussion of how Indy relates to the EU or how Indy relates to Westminster is really just idle chat. It could be at 70% in the YouGov polls - but if if doesn’t get voted on, that means nothing.

‘Everyone I know would vote X/Y’ is worth discussion now, but never going to mean much as the background is could look entirely different in a million ways.

Socialist UK? Inside EU? Outside? Situation with the £? Situation with the €? Requirements of a European Army?

From the most basic google search:

“On 29 May 2013 Miroslav Singer, the Governor of the Czech National Bank (the Czech Republic's central bank) stated that in his professional opinion the Czech Republic will not adopt the euro before 2019.[18] In December 2013, the Czech government approved a recommendation from the Czech National Bank and Ministry of Finance against setting a formal target date for euro adoption or joining ERM II“

And

“The Andrej Babiš' Cabinet that was formed following the 2017 legislative election does not plan to proceed with euro adoption within its term.”

See that wasn't difficult was it? 🙂

Although I think the plan overall is to have all members have the euro by 2025 so they may be forced regardless. Will have to see in the future, but none of us can see into the future.

No, but we do have the law. And the law says any referendum will need to have Westminster consent.

United Kingdom = Political

Britain/Great Britain/British Isles = Geographical

I was a no voter at the time, I'd vote yes now.

So done with England going the opposite way on every single thing I hold to be good or true.

Now when I visit England I feel like a foreigner.

Now when I visit England I feel like a foreigner.

I think a lot of English people feel the same in their own country!!

PersonaNonGarter

No, but we do have the law. And the law says any referendum will need to have Westminster consent.

Which is, in itself, an excellent reason to leave. If a spouse wants a divorce, they do it, they don't need "permission" from the other, supposedly equal, partner. UK didn't need permission from the EU to have a referendum.

Absolutely I think it's inevitable that Scotland will become independent.

I think it's going to be a direct result of the Brexit fiasco and also people in Scotland seeing how Westminster have used and abused and wasted Scotland's resources while demonising us in the media and making Scotland out to be subsidy junkies and too wee, too poor. They did the same to other countries (eg India) and some Scots are desperate to believe them and remain tied to Westminster. Even into wars and into Brexit.

I'm happy after reading this thread as there are definitely more MN voices for independence than before

🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻

No, but we do have the law. And the law says any referendum will need to have Westminster consent

The right of a people to self-determination is a cardinal principle in modern international law (commonly regarded as a jus cogens rule), binding, as such, on the United Nations as authoritative interpretation of the Charter's norms. It states that people, based on respect for the principle of equal rights and fair equality of opportunity, have the right to freely choose their sovereignty and international political status with no interference

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-determination

Oh come on @ssd, I campaigned to remain part of the UK in the Scottish Ref. I knocked on doors. Many people opened the door, looked side from side to check no-one was listening, quickly told me there were voting No and quickly closed the door. Others told me they were too scared to put up a NO poster in the window in case someone through a brick through it. There was a massive amount of intimidation and aggression to Unionists. I felt a huge amount of psychological stress and tension. its just naive or dishonest to pretend it wasn't like this. Any No posters were torn down. Don't you remember the Unionist campaigners being run off the streets? It was all over the news. I never though I would see the like in the UK. It was shameful.

@stoneofdestiny My OH who is English has never received comments like this. There are eejits in every country who will insult/make fun of people who sound or look different - they are always in the minority and rarely tolerated by the majority

This isnt' true either. Without an exception, when I talk of the racism I have experienced repeatedly in Scotland for being English (despite living in Scotland all my adult life I will never be accepted as one of the 'people of Scotland' by many) people who voted for independence either stay silent or excuse it or minimise it. Those who voted No condemn it.

I'm not really sure what your point is. The question was could scotland keep the army they have, considering they are employed by the British army? If Scotland leaves the UK, they are no longer part of that member state, so no longer have access to the army. Would the UK allow them to keep the soldiers they currently have? That remains to be seen.

My point is that 'British Army' isn't something that employs Scottish soldiers. It's a UK army that comprises soldiers from the 4 nations. The talk of 'allowing' isn't the right way to think of it.

Also, I don't understand why anyone conflates Britain with the UK. I'm a Scot, a Brit and hopefully to remain an EU citizen. What I'm ready to give up is being a member of a United Kingdom. I'd do that tomorrow.

Re that lengthy point about ‘UN self-determination’ - we have it, it is called a constitution including rules around election. And with an agreed set of laws including laws on our ... ability to hold referendums.

Sorry to bang on but there will be no legal referendum without Westminster agreement. That’s the law in Scotland.

So sure, chat away, but until we know how/when/why that referendum is granted, it is not going to be very well informed.

Without an exception, when I talk of the racism I have experienced repeatedly in Scotland for being English (despite living in Scotland all my adult life I will never be accepted as one of the 'people of Scotland' by many) people who voted for independence either stay silent or excuse it or minimise it. Those who voted No condemn it
Love to know where you live in Scotland. Never heard of this happening ever - but to put behaviour like that down to ‘yes’ voters is utterly ridiculous. Throwing generalities like that around I have to wonder if your behaviour is provoking negative responses from people to you personally - nothing to do with you being English.
As a Scot in favour of Independance and married to an Englishman, I’d take grave exception to be called anti English or racist by anybody - and wouldn’t shy away from telling you that!

I hope independence for Scotland is not inevitable.
I can see and understand the frustration with Westminster and Brexit but I’d like to offer an outsiders point of view.
We left Scotland nearly 30 years ago.
We left with a work ethic, ambition, great education behind us and a feeling that if you found yourself in this position, it was important that there was a safety net for those who really needed it.

Within the first hour of any visit back to Scotland in recent years, someone is telling us how brilliant Scotland is.
The reason ?
Free stuff.
Free prescriptions, free uni, etc.etc.
Since when was that the main ambition of being Scottish?

On occasion when I’ve pointed out that it’s not actually free, the tax payer pays, it’s usually met with a blank expression.

We can argue forever about currency, defence, Scottish waters ( for god sake don’t award the contract to CalMac or you’ll end up with 2 wee guys and clip board defending Scottish waters) but does Scotland actually have the energy and will to go through such a massive transition?
It may mean giving up the free stuff, it may mean a lower standard of living than you’ve got now.
No one can say with any certainty.

Do you have the breadth and depth of political talent post Independence?
The evidence to date would suggest otherwise.
Every single major infrastructure project in Scotland appears to go awry
whether it’s the parliament building, trams, ferry building, Edinburgh children’s hospital, Prestwick airport etc.

Can you offer young people enough to stay in Scotland ?
Attract more young people to come?
You need more entrepreneurs, wealth creators. Not everyone can work in the public sector.
You need loads more folk paying the top rate of tax. You can’t just keep taxing the tiny number of people who do pay it, more and more.

Sticking the word progressive in front of every sentence is utterly meaningless.

We always thought we’d return to Scotland but we have little interest in returning with our life savings to such uncertainty to a country that seems to have such a different value system to the one we left.

“See that wasn't difficult was it? 🙂

Although I think the plan overall is to have all members have the euro by 2025 so they may be forced regardless.“

It was too hard for you, you tried and failed.

And, you think that do you? Based on what?

CreamCol0uredP0nies

What happens in Scotland is none of your business. I hope you don’t come back.

“Without an exception, when I talk of the racism I have experienced repeatedly in Scotland for being English (despite living in Scotland all my adult life I will never be accepted as one of the 'people of Scotland' by many) people who voted for independence either stay silent or excuse it or minimise it. Those who voted No condemn it”

You’re right. I don’t believe a word of your claims.