To think that my need is just as great

[TheBananaInPyjamas]

...when travelling on the tube.

Sorry I know there's a few posts about this historically but things reached breaking point today so feel the need to vent!

I wear a "Please offer me a seat badge" as I have scoliosis and it hurts to stand for long periods of time, especially on a train when needing to support my self and prevent falling.

This summer it has been ridiculous trying to get a seat. Yesterday I was standing for ages and got stares from at least 4 people, who ignored me. As soon as a pregnant lady got on, someone stood up for her. Just to be clear - I'm not saying I need the seat more than her - but it was frustrating that people took her seriously and not me.

Today, I got on at the same time as a pregnant lady wearing a badge, and again, someone stood up, gestured over my head, and offered her the seat. Again, totally get that she needs it and would never take a seat from a pregnant lady but it was so frustrating as people just gawped at me. Was also cringe as I didn't see her at first so smiled, nearly said thank you, then she moved from behind me and sat.

Also today I was standing, out of the four seats in front of me, two were disabled/pregnant, one was asleep, and one woman was doing her make up..... blatantly saw me but I guess decided her mascara was more important. I find it so difficult to speak up in these situations, as she may have a hidden disability so did not want to say anything but had to bite my tongue to not say "are you quite finished....?"

AIBU to think that the "please offer me a seat" badge should have the same gravitas as the "baby on board?" Would you stand up for someone with this badge?

Sorry for rambling, just tired, pissed off and in pain!

As a tube-using person with no disabilities, I find this a minefield.
If someone is obviously less able to stand (visibly pregnant, crutches etc) of course I don't hesitate to offer my seat. But I live in fear of offering a seat to someone I think looks like they need it and offending them (the classic being offering to a 'pregnant' woman who turns out to be just fat!).

I don't have great eyesight and also hate staring at people, so I would probably not see or register a badge. And I don't like having to look at people standing and work out if they're giving me a 'please can I sit' look. Mainly because I think I'd probably get it wrong.

I do think the onus is on you to ask, maybe by addressing the carriage in general as a pp suggests, or by addressing the people nearest you and explaining that you have a condition that makes standing difficult.

SinkGirl Fri 30-Aug-19 07:07:43

I wish blue badges came with a lanyard that could be used on public transport.

That is a really good idea for those who are not driving their own car, and would make it much easier on bus drivers to ask people to vacate the wheelchair space.

Sorry but I think you need to woman up and just ask! There’s no need to be embarrassed or shy about it (and wtf relying on someone else to ask for you?!). Anyone who gets huffy or annoyed - well that’s their problem not yours. I went through 2 pregnancies and rarely did anyone notice a badge, but also rarely did I fail to get a seat when I asked (and I didn’t show until late in both pregnancies).

Just ask!!

Nope young bloke should have given his seat up anyway if he hadn't I might just have thrown up on him so actually I did need it. Obvs wouldn't do it normally but that day I too had a hidden disability and without fail always give up my seat to elderly/frail/anyone no guilt here

The problem is so many people have issues. No ones illness invisible or not or pregnancy gets to trump someone else. I get it I have stage 4 cancer and travel on the tube for treatment if I have too, but to the naked eye I look fine, I have hair and look "normal" but sometimes I feel like I could curl up and die on the floor. I guess my point is, it's just unlucky. If you genuinely feel so ill you need to sit you need to pipe up, but then in the next breath you could be asking someone like me that would be too polite to say no despite needing it myself. There is no real answer for this, other than changing lifestyle, which again isnt that easy!?!

I’m 8 months pregnant and often get purposely ignored. But most times my big bump makes people feel ashamed Andrew move. But when I was less pregnant and just had the badge to prove I wasn’t just entertaining a beer belly, people hardly noticed the badge.

My previous pregnancy I hardly showed at 9 months and hardly ever had my badge noticed.

I get it it’s very awkward to actively ask for a seat because it’s weird singling our one passenger and you’d hope they figure it out alone.

But I have personally genuinely never seen a plz offer me a seat badge. They could’ve looked at u but not seen the badge.. and even if they see it they might’ve been a bit confused.

If I had a disability and chronic pain I would definitely go to the person on disability seat and say, that I have a condition and need to sit. And point to my badge,

It feels awkward but it’s your right

For me the issue has tended to be that yes sometimes someone might need a seat “more” than me but that doesn’t mean I don’t need it! When I was working, an hours tube journey across London, stressful job, long hours. To be quite honest I was absolutely knackered by the end of the day. The thought of standing for an hour would have made me cry! It’s not just the standing, it’s the being crammed like a sardine, pushed here and there by people getting on and off (which I’m sure you’ve experienced OP). Technically did I “need” the seat more than someone with a disability, of course not. But mentally I did really need it. As an aside I gave up that job in the end and the journey was part of it. In “normal” circumstances I’m quite happy to offer a seat. But rush hour is tricky. No one wants to stand then.

ASta don’t think that’s right.

If you are sitting in a priority seat, the length of your journey and your long day don’t count. It should go to who it was intended for tbh.

I think that tfl should simplify badges and just put the same sign of the priority seat on the badge so people know it belongs to them.

It should say : priority passenger or something like this

I wasn’t in a priority seat, i’m talking a generic seat. But what you say is right. We need a cultural “shift” that priority seats are exactly that. Not just extra seats, thats one thing that needs to happen.

I also think employers have a part to play, if someone has a disability then part of their “reasonable adjustments” could be to stagger the persons start/finish time so they’re not travelling in rush hour.

If you genuinely feel so ill you need to sit you need to pipe up, but then in the next breath you could be asking someone like me that would be too polite to say no despite needing it myself.

Wouldn’t it also be at you need to pipe up too? Nobody is suggesting one trumps the other but if the solution is that someone needing a seat bears the burden of asking, surely the person they are asking need to be honest too?

As I suggested earlier though, on balance of probabilities the person being asked is more likely not to be disabled.

I am another one who was not familiar with those badges, and would not register them necessarily. You say you stare at people, but if someone just stared (or glared or whatever) at me on the tube, I would just avert my eyes and mind my own business and wonder why a person was staring angrily (glaring) at me.

Stop the passive aggressive staring, and just ask nicely. I'd never say no, even though I have a back problem and can't stand too long myself (couple of slipped discs) :) honest, I promise

Sorry but I think you need to woman up and just ask! There’s no need to be embarrassed or shy about it (and wtf relying on someone else to ask for you?!)

Here’s something for you to try. Every time you go anywhere or do anything for the next week, find someone to ask if it’s ok for you to do that. Ask the checkout operator if it’s ok for you to put your shopping on the conveyer. Ask the bus driver if it’s ok if you get on the bus, ask other passengers if you can sit in their seat, even if there are other free ones. Ask customer services at Tesco if you can use their toilet. Stop in the doorway of every shop and ask permission to come in.

Disabled people have to ask permission and rely on other people to help them for pretty much everything they do. Is it too much to ask other people to be aware of those around them to try and relieve that burden? As I said “just ask” is not the answer.

This is so complex.

I happily give up my seat if needed. I'm a middle aged totally not pregnant slightly overweight woman, and people are always offering me a seat on the Tube, no idea why.
Maybe I just look knackered.

Though the other day on the train I came over really faint and had to sit on the floor with my head between my knees and no-one said a thing, got a dirty look from a guy as my bag touched him as I slid down and he just moved away from me.

I've often seen people ask for a seat, but usually generally rather than targeting one person, someone always moves for them. So I think you do need to choose a form of words that you're happy with "could anyone please offer me their seat?" might do? If you use the same every day it won't be as exhausting, it'll become routine.

I've never seen anyone with one of these badges on the tube. I would offer a seat if I did though! It might be I haven't seen them because I'm usually reading a book or watching something on my phone, but I do look up at stations to check nobody needs a seat.
I'm currently pregnant and nobody has offered me a seat on the tube (despite wearing a badge/pregnant belly). Sometimes a fellow stander will ask someone if they'll offer me a seat, but like you, I don't want to run the risk of asking someone if they need the seat more than me!

My daughter has Scoliosis (2 long metal rods running length of her spine). She has learned to ask when she needs to sit. She is usually very aware of any help that is available, but she hasn't heard of the tube badge so it's likely that non-disabled passengers haven't either. The fault is with London Transport who upt their game and publicise it more.

For me the issue has tended to be that yes sometimes someone might need a seat “more” than me but that doesn’t mean I don’t need it!

It’s this attitude that makes life so hard for people with disabilities.

I do not have a painful condition, but have co-ordination and balance issues, which mean that standing in a moving, sometimes jolting vehicle is actually dangerous for me, as I am at risk of falling. Especially when I was slightly younger, I had problems with people not only failing to give up their seats for me, but looking askance at me if I did not give up mine to older people. I do ask if necessary, but having invisible disabilities all my life (including childhood) has made me rather paranoid about risking harshness and rejection on any related subject. This is one of several things that have made me choose not to live or work in London.

I think that one partial solution would be to make it possible for people to book seats on the Underground in advance, as is already the case on railway trains. Yes, it reduces flexibility if one needs to book in advance; and people don't always respect the fact that someone has booked; but it would make life much easier for many people than the current system.

Asta 19: I' also think employers have a part to play, if someone has a disability then part of their “reasonable adjustments” could be to stagger the persons start/finish time so they’re not travelling in rush hour.

I agree with that.

To be quite honest I was absolutely knackered by the end of the day. The thought of standing for an hour would have made me cry!

Do you not think that disabled people on the tube in rush hour might also have been at work day, feeling exhausted, have stressful jobs? How do you think the thought of standing for an hour would make you feel if you also had severe pain, fatigue, mobility issues, blood pressure issues etc?

When I was working, an hours tube journey across London, stressful job, long hours. To be quite honest I was absolutely knackered by the end of the day. The thought of standing for an hour would have made me cry!

Lol!
Try a half hour drive, followed by an hour and a quarter train journey where you probably don't get a seat, followed by a twenty min Tube where you definitely don't get a seat, followed by a ten minute walk. And reverse going home, only difference being you never get a seat on the train home.
Stressful long hours job.
Leaving home at 6.15, getting home at 8pm.
Yeah, often felt like crying to be honest. Probably did a few times.

When a person has asked me to give them a seat/pointed out that 'this is a disabled seat, you know', I've usually felt directly under attack - possibly unreasonably, but then again, they never ask the six foot blokes.

One humiliated squeak of 'I'm disabled' tends to get a huffy response 'yeah, I bet' or 'and I'm pregnant' rather than an 'oh, sorry'.

Except for the onslaught of abuse when I had a leg brace and crutches - that didn't count because I was under 60.

I dare say that somebody somewhere is complaining about me, too.

Op you have to talk up. People can look straight at you and not register your badge. Theres a million things going through my mind, I'm not looking out for your badge. Dont expect people to baby you. Talk up and you will find alot of people will give up their seat

You can all say I’m wrong but most people using the tube have the same attitude. Hence the problem. Most people are only kind to strangers if it doesn’t “cost” them anything personally. You can think me shitty for saying that but I think it’s better to be honest in these types of discussions rather than just write another post saying “I would give you a seat OP”, when we know real life isn’t like that.

I wasn’t playing tiredness “top trumps” I was just saying what many people are thinking on their journey home. As I say, I think more practical solutions are make the priority seats actual priority seats and, if possible, have some adjustments in place with the employer.

Mitzi... was the 6ft bloke sitting on a priority seat?

If she was so absorbed in doing her make up, she probably wouldn't have noticed that:

1. There was a woman with a Please Give Up Your Seat badge.
2. She was the only person who was not disabled, pregnant or asleep.