I've been told I dress too smartly at work...

[Appletina]

and I've been told I need to dress more casually.

I tend to wear smart day dresses, or skirts with a top or blouse, from places like Hobbs, Reiss, Jaeger. I don't wear jackets or blazers or full on suits. I wear low heels.

I work with the public and apparently my dress sense could be perceived as intimidating and so I am to dress more casually... I think that's a ridiculous and patronising thing to say about the great British public!

AIBU to continue to keep dressing as I am?

Nope Head it isn’t moot. OP has said that she sits behind a desk, clients are from a cross section of the general public, not a health care or vulnerable person centred organisation and it wasn’t her immediate boss who said it.

Posters only want to know so they can make some half arsed comment on how wearing a smart dress and cardy is inappropriate, whilst at the same time making silly comments on how colleagues flashing their upper thighs is perfectly ok.

As for Qual, it’s obvious to me as a legally qualified poster with relevant working experience, that they know what they are talking about.

Tell me Head ad have you any relevant legal experience.

I didn’t claim to be legally qualified or refute the fact that Qual is! (She may be, I don’t know, but I didn’t take issue with it).
Calm down, dear

It doesn't mean nothing at all. It's a valuable principle going through life. Sometimes there is a lot to be said for rubbing along with people, taking on board what others say (even if I may disagree), choosing what to raise and what to let slide and not taking every little piece of feedback or advice I don't like as some sort of personal vendetta.

Do I honestly believe that the person who gave me the heads up about a group of students who were super sensitive to symbols of authority was some sort of horrible person out to ruin my career and dent my confidence? Not at all. They were someone who'd worked in that setting longer than I had. I could have decided they were mean, sexist, bullying, out to get me down as a woman and told them where to go because I like my soft waterfall blazers (they're unstructured and hardly business dress). Alternatively, I took it on board and left it when I was with those students. It was a useful piece of advice. Taking time and and reflecting on things before deciding "but I'm right/they're jealous/out to get me" is helpful.

I've seen first hand what happens when people insist on viewing even the most reasonable feedback and advice as complaint worthy criticism. Some local training providers have to do seminars with their trainees at the outset to explain what is/isn't complaint-worthy, how to deal with advice because they were getting ridiculous complaints from trainees about schools over entirely reasonable advice and feedback. We had someone the year I retrained who was like that too. Interestingly they had issues at multiple schools, but it seems much more common now to confuse actual workplace issues with "something I don't agree with".

Can I ask you what you would do if you personally experienced quite blatant unfairness in the workplace? e.g. if you were excluded from a team bonding opportunity at work because you were female and told you wouldn't fit in, but all the males at the same level as yourself were invited?
Would you assert, whine, be flexible or be nuanced?
If I was being excluded from a work event or training for being female or the only person to be kept out then I'd be getting union advice and raising it appropriately.

If it was a social friend event out of work then I'd get over it.

Dear god Head telling someone to calm down dear is offensive, patronising and the type of thing a misogynistic arsehole would say. Give your head a wobble.

Patronising? From the bod who asked if I had any “relevant” legal experience?

Take any offence you please, and maybe keep your snout out next time you’re tempted to ask if I have the relevant credentials to ask a question of someone else...

@LolaSmiles, you’re a woman after my own heart. My philosophy is the same as yours. It makes life remarkably calm and stress free. I thoroughly recommend it.

Ha so you don’t have any relevant experience. Point taken. Colour me surprised.

Lola I’m glad everything’s working out for you. Working etiquette can be a minefield can’t it.

I have no idea what you’re ballsing on about, Gender. Bugger off now, will you?

LolaSmiles I'm all about principles and I would always put them before climbing the greasy corporate pole. But then in my field, that's something that's a quality sought after and essential to the job. Its hard to generalise across multiple fields. What you do works for you, but it wouldn't work for me. I would still, as an experienced professional, tell anyone who gave me a "little bit of advice" about my clothing choice where to go to, but in a very polite and correct way.

Theres a lot of "advice" out there that is simply wrong and which will not be good for your earning capacity in the future, but which might be very good for the person giving it. I find its better to trust my own judgment, checking if it is correct if necessary.

Its true that there are people who get to high positions in their chosen careers by doing as you advocate and appeasing (Theresa May I would suggest probably falls into that category) but its certainly not for everyone!

Genderfree
Working etiquette is absolutely a minefield. I think that's why I think it's helpful to think about "what do I want to achieve in this situation/does this really matter" before responding to advice/guidance/feedback.

Working etiquette and human relationships cant be neatly summed up in a policy, and not every situation has one, so principle of charity goes a long way.

E.g. Do I think this senior colleague is wrong? What comes from challenging it Vs not? Does it make a meaningful difference to my situation if I do or don't? Is this a situation to suck up or advice to take on board because there might be some benefit? Is this something that needs addressing? Is this something that is well intentioned clumsiness/stupidly talking rather than mallice?

Sometimes things do need raising, but other times it's a case of:

1. Nod, smile and ignore
2. Small changes to accommodate and show willing and to rub along
3. Reflect and take what you can from it as there's often interesting ideas even in things you disagree with

4.. Get clarity from someone else before acting

Head you’re very aggressive, can’t be good for you. Not a good look in any case. You have no authority to tell someone to get off a public forum. In any case I don’t have balls, just ovaries of steel.

Lola you’re very reasonable, I really like your posts. Can’t say I agree with everything you say but I understand your why you say what you say.

gender
I think that's a good thing about MN. It's possible to disagree with someone whilst accepting they have a different view that's as valid.
Our debate has been really good.

Lola wouldn’t it be funny if we found out that this was all for an article or the OP was on a wind up or had some really obscure job. Oh I don’t know like training seals, lion trainer, or teaching people to knit quinoa to make jumpers.

It would be funny. I don't worry too much about the article things as they almost never quote people having interesting disagreements. It's much better when people are throwing personal insults about fucking off to the other side of fuck.

Obscure job would be funny too. What about market researcher for Hobbs to see how people perceive their clothing? Fashion designer looking at day dresses and cardigans: workwear, casual or daytime occasion?

I'm still picturing something really quite ordinary where the obvious solution is to keep shopping at the places they like, but be mindful of the feedback on the more dressy end of style.

I don’t think we will ever know. Perhaps she’s the new James Bonds M ( or P I can’t remember)

I prefer fuck off to the far side of fuck and when you get there fuck of some more.

The extra fucking off really adds something.

It's funny how quite an interesting discussion comes from someone refusing to answer simple questions that could have given clear advice from the first pages.

Your right Lola I have a friend who lives at the other side of the country from me who wanted advice about ex wife coming after him for more money 20 years later. I asked him the relevant questions and I got no answers at all. it was quite surreal. I’d ask if he had a clean break and he’d say yes it was really an expensive law firm. These sort of questions went on for about half an hour and I was no wiser by the end. DH and I were coming up with up with all sorts of scenarios to explain what the hell was going on. Our imaginations were really in overdrive.

It's always the way.

Sometimes I think that people leave out crucial information or present in a certain way, test the waters to see if they're likely to get the response they want and then decide what information to add in later or withold based on initial responses.

Take this thread, for example. The shops mentioned are irrelevant to the situation as the Hobbs stock a range of day dresses in various formality and levels of tailoring, but it was inevitable that some people would focus on price, leaving it open for people to say "but it's just good quality people are brand stops".
People asked what the job was (mainly because although some of us have disagreed, there's a good number who think this is relevant), no answer so people have to speculate.
People asked who said it, because it if was a colleague gossiping then straight away almost everyone would have said to ignore. Only later did we get that it's a senior member of staff.
The bit about "but other people have short skirts" was irrelevant and more there to gain support for their style when in reality the casualness of someone else's attire is irrelevant to this, bit would be relevant if OP was told to smarten up when others weren't)

Really the whole situation after 29 pages is:
I work doing something with a range of clients but won't say what doing . I wear dresses and cardigans typically ( some photos of similar styles would be more helpful than listing higher end high street brands as that tells us nothing). A senior colleague mentioned that I might want to consider being a little more casual in my attire due to appearing approachable to clients. What's a good way to proceed?

Obvious advice: have a look at the dress code and talk to your direct manager for some more guidance. Maybe most of your wardrobe is fine but a couple of pieces are too formal, it could be worth keeping it in mind. If there's any more issues then follow it up.

I do agree (shock horror). In my friends case I don’t think it’s because he screwed over his ex, I think it’s the opposite, he’d rather give in then fight. So he doesn’t answer questions that will help him. He’s been uncontactable for 2 years whilst his ex has been on numerous holidays.

I know that sounds irrelevant but I think it shows how people aren’t always forthcoming because it suits their agenda, even if it’s to their detriment.

You would not impress me looking like that

She’s not trying to impress you, she’s trying to build trust and connection with her client

Clearly I meant if I were a potential client. I would not be impressed by a pitch done in such a casual manner (in both senses)

I pitch in smart casual, try to strike a balance

If I pitched for a client who wore smart clothing, and then the relationship went further, I would wear smart clothing at future meetings etc

If you pitched for business from me wearing "smart casual" it would go nowhere.

Did you read the full post you made this comment about?

Yes and I'm still not impressed.

Genderfree
So very true.
I can think of some work ones where people's spin and selective facts ended up causing their own downfall.

One involved a trainee who could have got along with people, passed the placement by listening/reflecting , but decided they didn't want to work in that type of school again (which is fair enough we've all done it). Selective spin over time meant having to go through lots if issue raised by staff over the weeks to counter ridiculous accusations against members of staff. It also meant their reputation wasn't good, they also didn't learn as much as they could have. It was a shame, but their own doing.