I've been told I dress too smartly at work...

[Appletina]

and I've been told I need to dress more casually.

I tend to wear smart day dresses, or skirts with a top or blouse, from places like Hobbs, Reiss, Jaeger. I don't wear jackets or blazers or full on suits. I wear low heels.

I work with the public and apparently my dress sense could be perceived as intimidating and so I am to dress more casually... I think that's a ridiculous and patronising thing to say about the great British public!

AIBU to continue to keep dressing as I am?

Orangesox you come across as very judgemental and a mix of snobbery and inverted snobbery.

On a regular day, I wear either black jeggings or yoga pants, a T-shirt/casual top and a fleece or a jumper; I get full answers, good engagement with lifestyle advice, requests for further support etc

You would not impress me looking like that. If you are so casual about that what else are you casual about?

@MargueritaBlue
I think you have got me completely wrong. I try not to judge. I would obviously never expect clients to dress a certain way for me- it is entirely the other way around.
I am trying to mirror my clients to reduce barriers, have better rapport etc. It just so happens that they generally wear casual clothing so I do the same and would hope that any employee would also understand why I am doing so, and would also do likewise.
I pitch in smart casual, try to strike a balance.
If I pitched for a client who wore smart clothing, and then the relationship went further, I would wear smart clothing at future meetings etc.
This is just about common sense in my opinion. No judgement. No strict orders, just a general look to make clients feel comfortable with me.

Postmanwatcher I checked on line and they do go up to size 18 and one of them, can’t remember which one, has extra large.

You would not impress me looking like that

She’s not trying to impress you, she’s trying to build trust and connection with her client.

If you are so casual about that what else are you casual about?

There’s nothing ‘casual’ (in that sense) about carefully selecting clothes to connect as strongly as possible with the people she’s working with.

After reading another thread about dressing styles I googled
"Dress like an architect".
One comment was "never out dress your client."
Clothing and perception of makes for very interesting reading.

Whilst working in a family law dept I often visited women’s centre specifically for women suffering domestic abuse (from all walks of life). Many of these women had escaped with the clothes on their back and a small bag of possessions. I always wore a suit. I received a lot of positive feedback, Even after I left I received requests to go back from the centres staff and service users. My very formal suit was no barrier at all.

I always wore a suit. I received a lot of positive feedback ... My very formal suit was no barrier at all.

But in that case you’re starting with some trust, you’re clearly on their side and there to help them and they understand that.

Health visitors/social workers/probation officers aren’t necessarily. They often need to get past lots of barriers, to a position of trust before they can even begin to do their job as there’ll potentially be suspicion about their motives. They need to build connection.

It’s totally different.

Also part of a lawyers job is to represent the client in a very public place where formality matters. Literally everyone is advised to dress up for court. Lawyers almost never dress down. There’s a reason for that.

@MargueritaBlue

Well thank goodness my role isn’t about impressing anyone... my clinical expertise speaks for itself, my clothing has nothing to do with my ability to undertake my role.

For someone who accuses me of being judgemental you’re doing a tremendous job of demonstrating that particular trait yourself aren’t you?

The vast majority of my clients are hard working individuals with a general mistrust of “management” and authority figures. Do you seriously think they’re going to engage with a consultation being offered by a member of the senior management team if they feel that it’s a ruse to ultimately dismiss them?

Because I can categorically tell you that they don’t... I found that out the hard way. I entered my current workplace from a corporate NHS position where suits were de rigueur, I was generally regarded as a management tool to find out vulnerabilities to help them dismiss an individual. Which is the absolute opposite of the remit of my role. It took me months to build trust and rapport with the general staff population by increasing my visibility on the shop floor, reducing the formality of my clothing, spending more time getting to grips with the socioeconomic backgrounds of our employees and the overall needs of the workforce.

But by all means, please tell me how sloppy and casual my approach is.

You would not impress me looking like that. If you are so casual about that what else are you casual about?

Did you read the full post you made this comment about? It just makes you look silly, because the pp demonstrated that that attire got her the best results from the people she deals with. And she clearly isn't casual about getting the best possible results in her work.

... even before her last post.

When I did my degree we were all part of a large group that would branch into separate areas. All biologists.
It's interesting that we could identify which branch most people would go to or wanted by the way they dressed.
The scruffy types were all environmental sciences.
The best dressed/more conservative were plant biology/microbiology.

Make of that what you will.

But Laurie I wasn’t always giving legal advice and assistance. A lot of the time I was handholding and just letting them talk and get things off their chest, frequently with one of their children on my knee. It wasn’t always a normal legal - client environment. Maybe it had something to do with the skills I gained in my previous career as a nurse, but I somehow don’t think so. I don’t think there’s that much of a barrier to wearing a suit when dealing with vulnerable people. I think it’s more to do with how you relate to people. If you have poor people skills, dressing casually isn’t going to help.

28 pages I've skimmed through to find out a bit more about the Op and there's barely anything. I'm V disappointed.

I'll read the full thread later on.

Good thread though.

I keep coming back to this although I don't know why.
I think the bottom line is that some of us think style of dress forms/ reduces barriers, others of us don't.
Ultimately, I suppose we all make our own decisions as to what we wear and even if a specific request is made to alter this because a manger has a different view from our own, we either take it on board or ignore it.

ownerofdlurcher I keep coming back to this although I don't know why.

Me too! Its an interesting topic, because there isn't much case law.

If I still set exams for students, it would make a good question because its one of those ones you can only pass by bringing out the full reasoning and law likely to apply in discussion.

That in itself shows the value of education, rather than just automatically complying, like a sheep. Perhaps all these strange workplaces where its still 1968 and there is no employment law will catch up one day! Or a settlement agreement with a good sum in compensation and a decent reference will be considered a better outcome than being bullied into eventually resigning through stress with no job to go to.

QualCheckBot- what is it you do? Do you mind me asking?

Fedupandborednow-

“QualCheckBot- what is it you do? Do you mind me asking?”

Well I don’t know about Qual but I can hazard a guess that their views are similar to mine. Employers can impose rules but that doesn’t mean they’re enforceable or entirely legal. Just because employees don’t take matters further in a legal sense doesn’t mean the employer was/is acting correctly. This thread has gone past whether the op has a genuine grievance (there really isn’t enough information to give an informed opinion), but has moved to what employers should or shouldn’t be doing. There are far to many posters misquoting and misrepresenting the law despite legal professionals actually quoting the law.

fedupandborednow

Like the OP, I see no value in disclosing personal details relating to myself on an internet forum.

Or, as is my favourite reply to a question there is no gain in me answering:

"Why do you want to know that?"

But there is a clue in my username!

I think the bottom line is that some of us think style of dress forms/ reduces barriers, others of us don't.
Ultimately, I suppose we all make our own decisions as to what we wear and even if a specific request is made to alter this because a manger has a different view from our own, we either take it on board or ignore it
I agree. I think sometimes taking on board a small piece of advice is often simpler and vastly more reasonable than picking a silly hill to die on, but then I think that's my approach to life in general. Sometimes I find that being a little accomodating makes it much easier when I need to actively challenge more pressing issues (be it work or personal life). People who whine about everything and complain about everything and are always the victim tend to find their whining becomes white noise to others over time. Someone who mixes good will, flexibility and assertiveness tends to get heard. Good will tends to lead to good will in return. There's no law on that, but it's human interaction and there's no policy to document the nuances of human interaction in any area of life.

Who’s been whining?

Anyway saying someone’s whining doesn’t mean their complaints aren’t valid.

Look some of the employment breaches I’ve seen that have been passed off by the employer as oh they’re just a complainer, it’s just banter or constructive advice is unbelievable. Pathetic really in this day and age.

Let’s also stop with this nuance crap as well, it’s rarely a good argument.

It was a general comment about raising things in the workplace (and life in general) in that people who complain the most about everything tend to get tuned out, but someone who is accomodating and flexible but then is assertive in raising concerns in areas is more likely to get listened to.

I agree with you when you say some places dismiss very real concerns as just a complainer and bullying issues as banter. I've seen it too (and left somewhere due to treatment of colleagues).

I just also think there's a middle ground and viewing everything as a slight isn't helpful. Getting along with people in a way that's positive isn't something that can be written up in some sort of policy or formula. Sometimes in work and life people will make suggestions or give feedback and for the sake of getting on, and it not being that big an issue, it makes a lot more sense to run with it than complain (there might be some use in acting on it, it might be a tokenistic nod response and see if anyone noticed later, it may be to keep in mind but not do too much).

I've spent quite a bit of time telling senior leadership when I disagree with them. Sometimes I get what I want. Sometimes I don't. In most places though I've had a fair hearing on raising issues and I think part of that is that goodwill and flexibility pays off. Whereas I know of people who've taken umbridge with lots of small things that it gets to the point where people just think "here they go again". Even if on that specific issue they could have had a good point, people hear then in complain mode and switch off.

Why do you want to know that?. If she’d asked what colour your eyes were or how much you earn I could see your point, QualCheckBot
But on this particular subject context is everything.
Op hasn’t disclosed her occupation either, rendering whether her boss is reasonable or not in that particular context a moot point.

Lolasmiles I agree. I think sometimes taking on board a small piece of advice is often simpler and vastly more reasonable than picking a silly hill to die on, but then I think that's my approach to life in general. Sometimes I find that being a little accomodating makes it much easier when I need to actively challenge more pressing issues (be it work or personal life). People who whine about everything and complain about everything and are always the victim tend to find their whining becomes white noise to others over time. Someone who mixes good will, flexibility and assertiveness tends to get heard. Good will tends to lead to good will in return. There's no law on that, but it's human interaction and there's no policy to document the nuances of human interaction in any area of life.

That's a bit woolly - it means everything or nothing but is a bit scathing of people who might find themselves in a situation not of their own making

Can I ask you what you would do if you personally experienced quite blatant unfairness in the workplace? e.g. if you were excluded from a team bonding opportunity at work because you were female and told you wouldn't fit in, but all the males at the same level as yourself were invited?

Would you assert, whine, be flexible or be nuanced?

Because I can tell you exactly where I would tell someone to go with their "small pieces of advice" of their expectation of being "accommodating". I have never experienced that much sexism in the workplace, but when I have, I have stood up to it, pointed out it was wrong and specified that it was against the law. And that has gone extremely well for me. The issue has resolved instantly, it has never been brought up again and the working relationship restored.

I understand it is difficult for a lot of people though.