To think that No Deal Brexit is the only option now

[Bearbehind]

I’m a staunch Remainer, I think Brexit is absolute madness but I can’t see any way out of this mess except No Deal now - the division is too great and views are too entrenched

Leavers insist it will all be fine so the
only option is to do it and see what happens

The way I see it, anything less will just lead to the uprise of the Brexit Party until we ‘leave properly’ anyway.

We might as well just jump of the cliff now. If it’s all rosey then great.

If it’s not at least we can start to repair the damage sooner rather than later

Your belligerent position is not helpful.

What is not helpful is those who refuse to accept what is and isn’t possible in practice and still harp on about things that cannot or will not happen.

Three years on and still all this talk about Revoke, Peoples Vote or a deal. All these were options, they been tested, they weren’t successful even when MPs took over parliamentary business, there was barely a majority for anything. All this film-flamming around, stalling for time in the hope of actually not leaving is how we have ended up in no deal territory

It’s rare we agree time but it does happen 😂

I’m proper fed up of Remainers wittering on about revoking or a Norway deal or a special economic area in NI.

We’ve tried all that and none of it worked so we need to grasp the nettle, just leave and deal with the aftermath.

Once we’ve left it’s too late - whilst there is still some time, everything should be done to avoid leaving. Once the MP’s return to parliament, hopefully things will get interesting and BJ will get some opposition to his plans.

parker whilst I admire you optimism, what is it based on, other than blind hope?

An NI only backstop has NOT been put before Parliament. It has only been put to the DUP. Those are not the same thing and you won't accept this. Unhelpful of you to suggest otherwise.

An NI only backstop has NOT been put before Parliament. It has only been put to the DUP. Those are not the same thing and you won't accept this. Unhelpful of you to suggest otherwise

bellini I’m not going there with this again.

I’ve told you and so have many others, why the Tories will not put this to a vote.

If you refuse to understand why then it’s you who is being belligerent.

A no deal has been stopped before. Boris doesn’t have a majority so it could easily be stopped again. There are also various legal challenges starting their process through the Courts in early September.

A no deal has been stopped before.

It hasn’t really, we just moved the finish line a couple of times.

Boris doesn’t have a majority so it could easily be stopped again.

Technically he does have a majority

There are also various legal challenges starting their process through the Courts in early September.

Too little too late. All it will do is strengthen the resolve of those who want to leave.

But things have changed since the indicative votes. May and all her cabinet who wouldn't sign up for Oct 31st do or die are now backbenchers. Johnson has neutralised the ERG to a great extent by giving the big-hitters jobs in the cabinet. We have a new PM who has never been v popular in the parliamentary party. Cummings is universally detested. Some of the votes were v close. The deadline will concentrate and possibly change minds.

Westminster opinion is in a state of flux. I've no idea what Johnson, or Corbyn, is up to. Winning the next GE is obviously the main objective for both of them.

I agree with pp that Johnson's plan is probably to sacrifice NI and a quick election after a WA is signed, in the hope that tory voters will return to the fold from the BP and he'll have enough of a majority not to need the DUP. If Corbyn continues down the deselection road, he won't be able to rely on the PLP.

Tories may not vote against their new leader in a vote of nc just yet, but they will if it's Johnson v Parliament. And Bercow, for all his flaws, has already shown he's prepared to disregard precedent.

The first thing I'd do, if I were Speaker, is to facilitate a motion to cancel the conference recess. There's no justification whatsoever for buggering off for a tribal junket at this point in the proceedings.

"I’ve told you and so have many others, why the Tories will not put this to a vote."
And I disagree with you. I think they will to get Brexit. They will dump the DUP and bring over enough opposition MPs to get it through.
Or they will go with your dream scenario.

"Technically he does have a majority"
Minority government. Relying on another party. Just one vote in it. Not by any means a majority government.

Bear has it pretty bang on. There are no remain options, which are realistically possible, that will resolve this. The chance to avoid 'no deal' was the WA and remainers just wouldn't accept that.

I dont get why the EU is insisting on an 'insurance policy' for Ireland which might never be needed but if we dont accept it the threat is that they will put up a hard border immediately. Just seems to be shooting themselves in the foot.

So either the backstop is dumped and we get a last minute deal or we really will leave in October. Either it works out, and remainers begrudgingly accept it wasn't that bad after all. Or its a disaster and at the next election a different government can negotiate a Norway type deal.

Either way we need to leave and move on, or repair the damage, because staying in eternal purgatory is worse.

And I disagree with you. I think they will to get Brexit. They will dump the DUP and bring over enough opposition MPs to get it through.

How many times do you need telling?

IT’S NOT JUST ABOUT THIS VOTE!

.......buggering off for a tribal junket at this point in the proceedings

Tribal junket

Minority government. Relying on another party. Just one vote in it. Not by any means a majority government.

Again, I didn’t say he had a majority government, I said he had a technical majority.

I dont get why the EU is insisting on an 'insurance policy' for Ireland which might never be needed

It’s an excuse, it always has been.

A backstop is just that, an insurance policy.

If we were serious about finding a solution it would never ever come into play so is irrelevant.

Please try not to get het up again. It doesn't help your argument.

bellini I’m not het up, no one else agrees with you either.

Plenty of people have explained this to you.

The Tories are not going to give up their working majority to get a sea border through.

And even if they did, that has massive repercussions of its own.

You are the only person getting bent out of shape by someone suggesting this option. I have seen other people raising questions but most comments are finding merit in what I AND OTHERS have suggested.

If we were serious about finding a solution it would never ever come into play so is irrelevant
But it is relevant for many people. Remainers say without it war will erupt in Ireland and will never countenance any alternative arrangements. Leavers say its how the EU will keep us trapped inside the EU until Brexit can be stopped.

I agree politicians on both sides are using it as an excuse for their own goals. Hence we will likely end up leaving without a deal.

I’m proper fed up of Remainers wittering on about revoking or a Norway deal or a special economic area in NI

Things have changed in the past few weeks. Was it foreseeable that Johnson et al would get in if Theresa May resigned?

Personally I am surprised that Theresa May didn't bring in the vote after she announced her resignation. It was obvious then that Johnson would get in.

Things have changed. It will be interesting when we get back.

bellini who on the HoC agrees with you? Does this agreement with your solution extend beyond MN or some opinion published somewhere not read by all.

Really, to use your own oft-quoted descriptive, you need to "grow up" and stop badgering the OP unless you have something else to add.

As you wish @HateIsNotGood . Can't wait to see your better idea to stop No Deal.

*I think you are miscalculating what will happen in the event of a painful no deal.

No I really am not - I think it will be horrific.*

I’m not sure we’re talking about the same thing. I think we both agree NonDeal will be horrific. I’m talking about once we’re inti No Deal. I think you’re saying the No Deal politicians need ti be exposed for lying conniving pieces of shit they are (and I totally agree). But I think they are incredibly adept at twisting facts and creating a narrative and about it being someone else’s fault and it is a necessary sacrifice.

Remainers and the EU will be blamed, it’s very hard for some people to accept they were lied to on something of the magnitude of Brexit and the direct outcome is causing hardship for themselves, causes a kind of cognitive dissonance. Meanwhile anti No Dealers are going to be incredibly pissed off at what they are being subjected to.

Are you saying at this point things can’t get worse, Brexit has played out and we start to rebuild ?if so I see your logic but I think the division will mean things will get worse for a very long time.

Obviously as with this whole thing none of us know. What I do know is that the whole lot of us have been stitched up a treat and people who voted Leave have been too. It’s criminal what has happened and I hope I live long enough to see some of the architects brought to justice.

Remainers and the EU will be blamed, it’s very hard for some people to accept they were lied to on something of the magnitude of Brexit and the direct outcome is causing hardship for themselves, causes a kind of cognitive dissonance. Meanwhile anti No Dealers are going to be incredibly pissed off at what they are being subjected to.

It’s criminal what has happened and I hope I live long enough to see some of the architects brought to justice.

I completely agree with you postnotinhaste