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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that No Deal Brexit is the only option now

493 replies

Bearbehind · 25/08/2019 09:21

I’m a staunch Remainer, I think Brexit is absolute madness but I can’t see any way out of this mess except No Deal now - the division is too great and views are too entrenched

Leavers insist it will all be fine so the
only option is to do it and see what happens

The way I see it, anything less will just lead to the uprise of the Brexit Party until we ‘leave properly’ anyway.

We might as well just jump of the cliff now. If it’s all rosey then great.

If it’s not at least we can start to repair the damage sooner rather than later

OP posts:
greentheme23 · 26/08/2019 16:14

@Havanananana well said

Parker231 · 26/08/2019 16:19

The UK are heading to be the poor relative in Europe. They will have to pay the €39m (or whatever it is calculated at) as this is a legal agreement already committed to by the UK - deal or no deal. There are no benefits to the UK leaving the EU and it doesn’t make any difference if it is Theresa May, Boris Johnson or anyone else. The only hope now is that someone finds a legal method to stop Brexit before further damage is done - the £ has already dropped, house prices frozen or dropping ( and that’s if you can find anyone prepared to commit to buy). The job losses are going to be horrendous - leavers will be amongst those if you work anywhere reliant on EU funding, in financial services, car industry, petrol refineries, supply chain - and that’s just for starters.

bellinisurge · 26/08/2019 16:24

Op, you get cross and dismissive about any Leave option that isn't No Deal. You have said you want people to reap the whirlwind they are spinning.
I don't agree. There is an alternative Leave to the No Deal version. You don't like it because it doesn't make enough people suffer for their voting mistake.

chomalungma · 26/08/2019 16:28

There is an alternative Leave to the No Deal version. You don't like it because it doesn't make enough people suffer for their voting mistake

I wonder how many people would be satisfied with the benefits of a customs union but no freedom of movement from the EU?

That's a good middle ground.

Original poster
Bearbehind · 26/08/2019 16:33

Op, you get cross and dismissive about any Leave option that isn't No Deal

No bellini I get cross and dismissive of people who think things which have been tried before or things which are not possible in practice now are still options.

It’s totally pointless at this stage to be harping on about things which will not and cannot happen

We need to prepare for what’s likely and get on with it

OP posts:
Original poster
Bearbehind · 26/08/2019 16:36

I wonder how many people would be satisfied with the benefits of a customs union but no freedom of movement from the EU?

It doesn’t matter - that’s not an option now - this is exactly the point I’m trying to make

That was ruled out over 2 years ago

It’s completely pointless wishing for the impossible

OP posts:
Thymeout · 26/08/2019 16:37

Polls show there's definitely a majority against No Deal and most have found that the balance has tipped against leaving but not yet a 2/3 majority.

Once we're out, we're out. We can't change out minds for an unknown number of years. No one's left and come back before. The EU aren't going to make it easy for us. We will have caused them so much trouble. and we will applying for admission as a third country. It's too important not to do everything we possibly can to stop such a disastrous blow to our economy and position in the world.

No - it's not going to go away lightly. Cameron opened a real can of worms and we still don't know the full picture of how the Leave campaign pulled it off. But we are where we are and there'll be even more anger when the economy goes down the tube.

Btw, to pp who said speaking English was a disadvantage. It's the universal second language, first language for the USA. We've had an enormous advantage in being on the edge of the continent as a member of the EU with a language shared with the rest of the world. Companies are already relocating to the RoI which will now benefit instead of us.

And how long will it be before NI leaves to join its more prosperous southern neighbours?

It's not over till it's over. Too soon to give up the fight.

Parker231 · 26/08/2019 16:37

@Bearbehind - why would we want to get on with some think which is going to cause people suffering and hardship. Surely we should all be trying to prevent it?

chomalungma · 26/08/2019 16:39

That was ruled out over 2 years ago

Nothing is over until it's over.
And then we have a General Election. A party standing on the best relationship with the EU - including a Customs Union - might do well - even if we have already had Brexit.

Original poster
Bearbehind · 26/08/2019 16:40

parker nothing we’ve done in the last 3 years has made the slightest difference - what do you propose?

OP posts:
bpisok · 26/08/2019 16:43

The EU literally can't do away with the backstop it would be madness and that's nothing to do with the GFA.

Currently we are all in the CU/SM. We share the same rules on food, the same trade agreements etc. When we leave this stops.

Let's assume we allow the chlorinated chicken in from the US (that people keep banging on about) and it arrives in N Ireland. If there was no border it could freely cross into Ireland and from there straight into Europe. Same goes for any other goods.

So no, they won't do away with it in the WA. They may introduce some weasel words but it will not go and most ERA/hardliners will see this.

The only other option is to put NI and Ireland into a customs union and have a boarder between NI and the rest of the UK.

The 'cost' of Brexit is NI

Original poster
Bearbehind · 26/08/2019 16:45

Our best option is to postpone no deal now, for Corbyn to stand down and for Labour to run on a Remain ticket.

And how likely is that?

OP posts:
Parker231 · 26/08/2019 16:46

@Bearbehind - a people’s vote!

HappyParent2000 · 26/08/2019 16:49

There was only every two options from the beginning.

Either no deal or revoke A50.

It was worth trying but now it has been confirmed, a deal won’t work and probably never would have.

I’m not really a fan of a second vote, someone at the top needs to either revoke or go out without a deal. I don’t mind which but a deal would have been the worst scenario.

Original poster
Bearbehind · 26/08/2019 16:49

a people’s vote!

And how is that going to come about?

OP posts:
Peaseblossom22 · 26/08/2019 16:57

We are just on our way back from Berlin, a final fling before we are out of the EU. 🙁Very proud of my ds, 17 who attempted to speak German as much as possible whilst there. This is their future, he was talking optimistically about maybe working in Berlin for a period in the future , I wonder how easy that will be now . None of my boys can see any pluses or logic to us leaving what to them seems a natural network of alliances and agreements designed to make their lives better .

I could not help feeling that a city like Berlin which has had so much heartache and tragedy and which feels so forward looking ( I know there it is not perfect Amd there are problems with right wing activists there as well but still ) contrasts starkly with England ( particularly England out of the home nations) and its increasing narrow
Minded inwardness where it’s all about turning the clock back to some apocryphal golden era.

Original poster
Bearbehind · 26/08/2019 17:06

I’m not really a fan of a second vote, someone at the top needs to either revoke or go out without a deal. I don’t mind which but a deal would have been the worst scenario.

I’m with that - a second vote won’t necessarily change things

Revoke won’t happen because it would be seen as a breach of democracy

OP posts:
bellinisurge · 26/08/2019 17:16

No point trying to explain to you, op, that there are options other than No Deal for Leave because you refuse to see them or, mistakenly, think they have been through Parliament already.
Your belligerent position is not helpful.
I'm a general prepper. I have the right to an Irish passport as does my dh and dd. We are literally as "alright, Jack" as you can be in this situation. But I think it is incumbent upon all of us to fight No Deal as hard as we can. I don't pretend to have a perfect solution and I am more than happy to hear other's ideas. But I am not prepared to throw my hands up in the air and say " fuck you all". Not yet while there is still a chance.

Parker231 · 26/08/2019 17:22

@Bearbehind - you seem very determined that the UK leaves even if that means a poor future?

Another referendum would be preferable - with accurate information as to the impacts of each option. There were so many lies last time, from both sides, that everyone needs the opportunity to revisit the options available.

PostNotInHaste · 26/08/2019 17:36

We went to Berlin last summer and totally relate Peaseblossom. I think DS has it marked as his place to go if it’s all shit here when he graduates.i am a dual national and spent a lot of time visiting Bonn from childhood where the west German capital was. To see Berlin as a United city at a time when my other country is so divided was incredibly poignant.

Bear I think you are miscalculating what will happen in the event of a painful no deal. Such is the success of the Leave propaganda machine it be spun as a necessary sacrifice, the EU and Remainers will get the blame and we’ll all find ourself a lot worse off with our rights ripe for the picking by those who will seek to profit from other’s misfortune. People will not say they were wrong about No deal if it happens and is painful, they will find a way to justify it and they will be provided with a way.

Once we are out we are out but we are not there yet. It may be that having stared down the barrel of No Deal, with some bullshit renaming of something, that arrogant wanker who runs our country does cobble something together and both sides manage to compromise . Still a lot of ifs in that but I will not stop fighting for No Deal until it’s here.

chomalungma · 26/08/2019 17:38

I'm just wondering where all this extra money is going to come from for all the Prime Ministers improvements to the NHS etc.....

Especially in the context of a global trade war and potential recession in the world economies.

HateIsNotGood · 26/08/2019 18:02

I think Bear has a very valid viewpoint - particularly as he/she is a Remainer - I have found it useful in life to mentally prepare for the worst and be pleasantly 'surprised' when the worst doesn't happen; although my original best doesn't happen either.

However, I tend to think that PostHaste has described a 'possibility' of an outcome in his/her's last paragraph - some "bullshit renaming of something" that might be enough to get the WA (as amended) through HoC to avert No Deal. It has a good chance of doing so as JC has stated that his Party's priority is to prevent No Deal.

time4chocolate · 26/08/2019 18:23

Three years on and still all this talk about Revoke, Peoples Vote or a deal. All these were options, they been tested, they weren’t successful even when MPs took over parliamentary business, there was barely a majority for anything. All this film-flamming around, stalling for time in the hope of actually not leaving is how we have ended up in no deal territory. It could have been different if MPs had got their acts together (and JC was not Labour leader). The next two months, when MPs return from summer break, is going to show the whole world what a farce our political system is (more than already has). Hold onto your hats.

chomalungma · 26/08/2019 18:26

Three years on and still all this talk about Revoke, Peoples Vote or a deal. All these were options, they been tested, they weren’t successful even when MPs took over parliamentary business, there was barely a majority for anything

I was really disappointed with that. And with the cross party talks after that.

Original poster
Bearbehind · 26/08/2019 19:57

I think you are miscalculating what will happen in the event of a painful no deal.

No I really am not - I think it will be horrific.

But I’m also not pinning my hopes on some miraculous people’s vote or revoke or whatever, when there’s absolutely no indication that it’s likely.

OP posts:
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