To be outraged and despairing at the emboldened racist idiocy around us these days?

[daffalicious]

Today I ran to catch my bus which pulled off as I reached the stop.
Annoying but I was then first alone at the stop waiting for the next. By the time the bus arrived there were other people waiting too but I hadn't paid much attention to anyone as I was first in line near the bus stop post (no shelter).
As I stepped onto the bus a white woman grabbed the hood of my raincoat and yanked me backwards saying loudly 'we queue in this country you know'. I turned completely bewildered and did not see any look of sympathy in the faces of few people gathered.
I was so shocked and said 'what are you talking about I was here first. I missed the last bus' I clearly have an English accent. But all faces remained passive and everyone got on the bus. A young black kid at the back gestured for me to get on before him.
And so then I sat on the bus burning with hot tears and lump in my throat. Wondering what on earth has gone wrong with people in this country. Trying to make sense of it and feeling humiliated and disgusted.
The driver had seen but made no comment or gesture of sympathy.
I am a white English woman in 40s. With dark brown hair no tan at all but have absolutely no idea what nationality the woman assumed I was. I'm horrified at seeing first hand what happens in these situations. Once the woman had spoken to me like that it appeared the other people assumed there was just cause. I was being reprimanded for being a rude foreigner and no one had a problem with it.

I am really upset freaked out and disgusted. I keep thinking imagine if my kids had been with me. It was so humiliating. My heart is racing and I feel nauseous just writing all this.
I feel sick for everyone considered a foreigner. I'm angry that some people seem to have returned to attitudes of the 1970s.
I don't know what to do with all this.
What do mumsnet make of it?

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed

You are overusing the emoji. I'm going to assume your eyes have rolled out of your head by now.

One person's experience does not equal another's. If you grew up in a completely brown family with little to no racist exposure then lucky you. 👍

There is no harm in being educated on other people's experiences. You may find that someone who looks Israeli or Iraqi might have received more racism after 9/11 than a person who was of Caribbean descent. We are all humans having a different experience and you shouldn't discredit others because you feel like your experience tells you enough. Maybe the person you're talking to has lived in multiple countries so they have a different view on things.

Marriedwithchildren5

It did since you were associating a kippah with islamophobia. You can thank this internet stranger for informing you rather than keep on the defence.

Agree. It was a racist comment. The 'in this country' part meant she thought you were not from here. I'm sorry OP you've experienced this. I'm ethnic and have experienced public and outrageous racism over the years. Gangs of white youths calling me racist names. An exe's family denying my existence and acceptance. My brother being attacked on the top deck of a bus (he now refuses to get on a bus). I'm going to be really flamed for saying this so this is not a generalisation. But all the racist experiences I've received have been from poorer or lower working class people. I've never ever ever experienced racism from people that have wealth or are middle class. I'm not naive to think it doesn't permutate across all but it's certainly a trend I've experienced and my family have commented the same - in this country.

🤦‍♀️ it really doesn't matter what you call it. Xenophobia is just as bad as racism. You don't get a pass for being "not racist" when you are still xenophobic, especially publicly. And guess what? We can pretty much figure out that if you hate the Eastern Europeans, then you hate the rest of the foreigners too. A racist is not going to give a pass for the guy from Nigeria, but hate the guy from Slovakia. It doesn't work like that in the real world.

🤦‍♀️ it really doesn't matter what you call it. Xenophobia is just as bad as racism. You don't get a pass for being "not racist" when you are still xenophobic, especially publicly

That’s not what I’m saying I’m just saying bandying about the wrong word dilutes it’s meaning. A caucasian woman claiming she’s been racially abused isn’t helpful. Xenophobia is still bad FFS but it’s not the same thing.

A caucasian woman claiming she’s been racially abused isn’t helpful.

Did you know Caucasian women with dark brown hair can have such distinct facial features and still be abused in such a way? Sometimes those Caucasian women are called Jews. You can always research 1940s Germany about it.

Even though it was xenophobia the OP was not xenophobically abused. If someone calls me, erroneously, a Polish or black bitch it will not hurt my feelings because it's not accurate.

I am not saying the woman was not xenophobic.

Another lesson Purple and I like rolling my eyes you give me reason too

I found your post patronizing I thought that was obvious because my family has suffered racism and I am aware of other forms or racism/xenophobia

Lived in a few countries/ex husband ME (and look ME myself)/closest family friends EE could carry on ....

And I still see the op’s post a little too desperate to lay claim I have suffered as I have witnessed this before. The black kid remark - wasn’t he just a polite young person nothing more than that

Another lesson Purple hmm and I like rolling my eyes you give me reason too

Well don't have a seizure.

I found your post patronizing I thought that was obvious because my family has suffered racism and I am aware of other forms or racism/xenophobia

Yes but your experience does not negate another's. Racism from strangers is very different than racism from family as an example. If your family was a single race then maybe you weren't as exposed to other elements and if you did not have racist white family members (being a mixed nonwhite person) maybe you never saw how dark it goes.

And I still see the op’s post a little too desperate to lay claim I have suffered as I have witnessed this before.

I don't. Like I said, I have racist white family so I know the type who would just grab a perceived immigrant. The type of people who feel like they are better than others, who look at their ancestry, celebrate prestige and slave ownership.

Imagine if you looked different in that kind of family.

Perhaps that kid's personal experience made him sympathetic to OP. Perhaps my personal experience makes me sympathetic to OP. And guess what? No one's going to mistake me for being English.

OP how awful for you.
In terms of how other people reacted it's horrible to feel alone/isolated when others ignore but they may have been scared/shocked or embarrassed.

About 5 years ago I was on a train & out of nowhere a very smartly dressed Indian lady who was clearly mc & well spoken started shouting at a young African lady with her 2 small kids. The Indian lady got really angry & screamed at her to f off back to her own country, the African lady's crime was that her suitcase fell over about 4 metres from the other lady, wtf?!
I'm normally pretty outspoken but I was literally gobsmacked that a) anyone actually thought that b) Ive never heard anyone say that least of all with such vitriol & b) the juxtaposition of the women's appearance & race (hence why I described her). I was scared because she seemed like Jekyll & Hyde. The African lady clearly upset sat near me & I asked her if she was ok & apologised & said thankfully lots of people don't think like that. About 30 mins later the Indian lady was clearly on a work call & was so professional. Honestly it was scary how she switched, you could imagine her stabbing you 80 times in a frenzied attack, then smoothing her hair & having a tea.

You make quite a few assumptions Purple

Do you assume a white woman getting together with an Asian man in the 70’s didn’t cause issues and that white family were over the moon by this pairing

I wouldn’t assume anything about the young man just that he was polite

Maybe I have witnessed more than a few white people wanting to suffer too and want to let as many as they can know about this (always a good audience on here)

The woman was aggressive and as I have said that is horrible in itself

Do you assume a white woman getting together with an Asian man in the 70’s didn’t cause issues and that white family were over the moon by this pairing

Well first you said you were brown and now you are a white woman who has an Asian ex husband. I'm not going to take any more eyerolls serious from you. You can have them all back lol

Anyways, the white woman is still white and chooses to go in to it at an older age. The mixed child is born in to it and has an existential crisis for being treated like garbage by half of the family for merely existing.

I wouldn’t assume anything about the young man just that he was polite

Yes, being polite is a learned behaviour usually born out of wanting to be nice. Sometimes our experiences in life soften us and make us feel for others because it reflects the pain we have felt before. You may want to assume that people are one dimensional and that their past does not effect who they are, but it does.

Maybe I have witnessed more than a few white people wanting to suffer too and want to let as many as they can know about this (always a good audience on here)

If OP had come on here and been upset about cultural appropriation or something, I could perhaps understand the sentiment. But she was attacked. The attack was pulling her from her hood and publicly shaming her whilst telling her how things are done in this country like she's some kind of rat. OP had dark brown hair and I have already mentioned other Caucasian people with dark brown hair who receive such abuse at times in history, particularly Jewish people. You guys can choose to forcefully remain blind to the hostility faced by people who "look" foreign. No one's going to change your minds because there is a deeper issue underlying it all.

I said I was mixed and I look ME my family (one side) is brown they look Asian

My mother is the white woman, my father the Asian man .... I am the mixed child (not married ....I think you know how that might have been for myself and family both sides in the 70’s)

My ex husband is ME (still close and close to family, we still all consider ourselves family if you wanted those details)

... I fail to see where she thought you were foreign? And I'm foreign.

The phrase "we queue in this country" is a very old English phrase and actually does not mean the person you are saying it to is from another country. I know that seems odd and I can see why people make the opposite assumption, but it really isn't racist. It is something English white people say to other English white people. As a poster upthread said, it's a bit like "in this house...we do thus"...it doesn't mean you presume they are from another house and are inferior. It's just reiterating a rule.

I should add that I've had the comment thrown at me recently when I mistakenly queue jumped a couple of times. I'm white and have fair hair, blue eyes, definitely could not be mistaken for anything other than white English.

@TabbyMumz Then maybe it’s time to stop saying it. Because many of us are telling you we find it racially offensive.

I'm not claiming to have been racially abused.
But the woman said what she said and yanked me backwards off the bus because she thought I was a foreigner. That is fact.

Anyone trying to pretend this was just a clumsy rude use of a quaint old phrase needs to get their heads out of their asses.
It was a small incident but horrified me. I do believe people with racist/ xenophobic/ intolerant views are feeling emboldened. As clearly a large swathe of their fellow white English have no issue with this.

@ElleDubloo....unfortunately it's not that simple. You can't just ban a phrase that people see as intrinsically English and innocent. Here would be uproar if we tried to change language and phrases in other countries. These are things that change over time.

It's more than likely encouraged as people go on about the British people queuing. I personally don't think we queue more than any other country, but others do, it's become a British thing...a joke about the British. Therefore the phrase goes on. Some people might say it with a sarcastic tone in that we are laughed at, so we carry it on.

"I'm not claiming to have been racially abused.
But the woman said what she said and yanked me backwards off the bus because she thought I was a foreigner. That is fact."

I don't think so. She did all that because she thought you queue jumped. Some people get really cross about it.

Honestly, it's such a standard phrase, it's what comes out when people queue jump.

@TabbyMumz I’m not suggesting the phrase is banned (come on..!) Plenty of other offensive phrases are still legal, and that’s the way it should be! I’m saying that, as an individual, if you don’t wish to sound racist, you could perhaps consider not saying it

I agree it it quite a common phrase here that probably wasn't intended to be racist. My experience is people are so terrified queue jumping or appearing rude that there is always a stand off where no one is actually getting on because it's all 'after you' and 'oh you were here 5 seconds before me' and making sure the elderly and those with small kids get on first. Then there's lots of tutting and eye rolling if anyone dares to not pay any attention to this and just gets on the bus. This is especially ridiculous when it's an empty bus and there are more than enough seats for everyone. I once saw an older man berate a young lad for doing just this. He wasn't being rude he just didn't get the annoying 'after you no go ahead' stand-off and just got on the bus.

@OhLeaveMeBe4GS
The manner in which this thread has descended into the denial of a racist incident and the attempt to invalidate and goad those who recognise the mealy-mouthed words of the aggressor as racist is, indeed, a neatly illustrated microcosm of wider society
Couldn’t agree more, I’ve not posted in a while but look at the threads some posters seem to delight in gaslighting people of colour or anyone who complains of racism.
I have had posters who say if you complain about racism you are racist because they don’t “see colour” others have implied it’s worse to be accused of racism than to be racially abused or insulted.
Mumsnet has a hardcore of racist posters and HQ does little to stop them.

@ElleDubloo....I'm normally the queue jumper ha ha!!!

@EnthusiasmIsDisturbed

Good hmm

Oh the white person telling the brown people what racism is as if the brown people can’t work it out themselves hmm

In your previous posts you come across as completely unaware maybe that’s why @PurpleHedges is pulling you up and before you ask I’m black and having calling out racism in MUMSNET forever.