To not want vegetarians to decide where we eat on holiday!

[indiestarr665]

Myself and a group of friends go on an annual city break, usually to somewhere in eastern europe, and this year’s trip is coming up. Two of our number are vegetarian, and they tend to dominate the decision making when it comes to where we eat. My issue is that this is often at the expense of ambiance and so on - what usually happens is we traipse around, they will look at the menus and reject anywhere that doesn’t have about half a dozen veggie choices, even if it looks really nice and there are one or two options they can go for. We often end up forsaking the most interesting restaurants for places that are mediocre but have numerous veggie options. Worse, they make a beeline for vegetarian or vegan restaurants, the argument being that the rest of us (who are the majority) can eat anything on the menu whereas it doesn’t work the other way round.
I do appreciate that they have less choice, but when visiting a new city I do feel a bit annoyed at not being able to go to places with, say, a great atmosphere, reputation, view, etc etc because the priority is always whether the veggie menu is extensive.
In anticipation of this year’s trip I’ve sent round a list of suggestions of places that are meant to be good and that are ‘vegetarian friendly’ in the hope that we choose restaurants that suit everyone, not just them. But my message has been met with ‘I’m sure we’ll be fine, there are bound to be plenty of places’ which makes me think we’ll end up doing the same old thing of traipsing round. I’ve jokingly said that I don’t want to go to any vegan places, but actually I’m not joking, I really don’t want to! Am I being unreasonable?

@SaraNade what a delight! Let the eat steak eh?

I really can’t be bothered with fusspot eaters and have been cringing with ‘vegetarians’ who make a big fuss of the menu then order the lamb (yes I really have been out with someone who did this). And to be honest I’ve found more fusspots being indulged children (he mush have his chips, won’t eat vegetables or foreign food) and ‘I must have my red meat, won’t eat fish’ types

That’s not being a strict vegetarian. That’s being a vegetarian.

When I was vegetarian I just... didn't eat meat. That's what I always assumed a vegetarian was. It never even occurred to me to think about stock (which I thought was just like a spice or something) or lard. Because it wasn't meat so it just never even occurred to me. I'm that others would go to those lengths if they're only vegetarian, and not vegan (which is the group that don't eat any animal products).

How would you think a vegetarian (don’t eat anything with a face) is someone who just doesn’t eat red meat? That’s just someone who doesn’t eat red meat - what type of fish do you think lard comes from?

I know it depends why you cut out certain foods but you can’t say you are a veggie if you eat fish, poultry, gelatine/stock/fats (animal source).

@Theo32 Dairy is extremely healthy for you, it is part of the food pyramid for a reason, we all know that. So are eggs. You are talking nonsense. Vegetarian diets are healthy vegan is not.

But meat stock is made of meat .

vegan is not.

The NHS and the British Dietetic Association disagree with you.

@LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD If you are referring to me, I never said red meat. I said any meat. Which is why stock and lard never even occurred to me. It's an animal product, but not meat. Same as I'd drink milk, but not eat the cow. Or eat the eggs, but not the chicken. A vegetarian doesn't eat meat, they still eat animal products. A vegan doesn't eat meat or animal products.

It's an animal product, but not meat. Same as I'd drink milk, but not eat the cow.

Not quite the same because milk isn't made from a dead animal. Stock and lard however are made of dead animal, hence not vegetarian.

If you someone ate chicken then nobody would describe this person as a vegetarian. But somehow this chicken magically becomes suitable if you boil it up and blend it to make stock ...

As I said, I thought stock was a spice. It never occurred to me that it was made out of actual meat. Same as gelatine (which I thought was simply a jelly substance). Neither of those occurred to me. Also as I said, I simply didn't eat meat. That's all. Gelatine, stock, lard, never even entered my mind, nor the minds of the couple of other vegetarians I knew at the time. All we knew (and this was pre internet age unlike now where you can now google every minute thing and get a lot of detail that you never would have thought of before) were that vegetarians didn't eat the flesh of an animal.

Fair enough.

@C8H10N4O2 yes I have had a few plates of boiled veg in my time (in Brittany)!

I have said it before on MN and I will say it again:-

Strict vegetarian = vegan

have to laugh at these comments saying "you wouldn't want to eat the same thing every day".
when in Turkey I have kebabs every day. sometimes twice a day.

the argument that "you can eat anything, we can't" doesn't stack up unless they are vegetarian for medical reasons. They can eat anything, they just choose not to. It is a choice that no one forced on them

They choose not to for reasons that are important to them and technically if they did eat meat/meat products, then they wouldn't be a vegetarian, so no a vegetarian literally cannot eat anything.

By your argument, a Hindu 'can' eat beef/a Muslim or Jew 'can' eat pork. An alcoholic 'can' have a drink. A non-smoker 'can' have a cigarette. But no they can't.

If they are vegetarian for health reasons then they need to research how unhealthy dairy and eggs are, and if they are vegetarian for ethical reasons then, again, research would show them that the dairy industry is even more horrific than the meat industry, so they are helping no-one unless they are vegan.

I question that dairy is worse than meat industry, but 'whatever' you can make sure you get from more ethical sources. And many vegetarians don't have milk or milk products, but may eat eggs and honey.

I get my free range eggs from local small-holder.

if you choose to have a restricted diet, you really can't be surprised when there is also restricted menu choices to go along with that.

Someone please tell me, we are still in 2019, we haven't gone back a few decades?

@purpledaisies - That’s not being a strict vegetarian. That’s being a vegetarian

You are 100% correct and right

It sounds like a crowd of you are going.

I would send a text suggesting ye meet for drinks at a certain time each evening and that everyone makes their own decisions re food, leaving the vegetarians able to sort themselves out, likewise the fish and meat eaters.

There is no way anyone would dictate my food choices like that. Extremely selfish.

I certainly haven't come across any vegetarians like that.

When I was vegetarian I just... didn't eat meat. That's what I always assumed a vegetarian was. It never even occurred to me to think about stock (which I thought was just like a spice or something) or lard. Because it wasn't meat so it just never even occurred to me. I'm confused that others would go to those lengths if they're only vegetarian, and not vegan (which is the group that don't eat any animal products).. As I said, I thought stock was a spice. It never occurred to me that it was made out of actual meat. Same as gelatine (which I thought was simply a jelly substance). Neither of those occurred to me. Also as I said, I simply didn't eat meat. That's all. Gelatine, stock, lard, never even entered my mind, nor the minds of the couple of other vegetarians I knew at the time. All we knew (and this was pre internet age unlike now where you can now google every minute thing and get a lot of detail that you never would have thought of before) were that vegetarians didn't eat the flesh of an animal.

@saranade you weren't ever a vegetarian. Vegetarians do not eat meat (or fish) products. It is not going to any particularly great lengths to eat like this. I have been a vegetarian for 30 years (yes from pre internet) and have never had a problem of understanding that this would entail not eating meat products (nor do any other vegetarians I know).

So you were misguided then, but you know now.

A vegetarian doesn't eat meat, they still eat animal products. A vegan doesn't eat meat or animal products.

Vegetarians don't eat any animal product which directly causes the animal to die. So they will consume milk, eggs, honey and cheese because although the industries which produce these are questionable, the animal doesn't die to produce those products. They don't eat meat stock, otherwise you might just as well argue it's fine to eat animals so long as you cut them up small enough and boil them a lot. This information was available before the internet in books, and literature produced the the Vegetarian Society.

Vegans don't consume or use anything that is derived from animals. So no wool, silk or leather. No cheese, eggs, honey, milk. Some people have a plant-based diet but will still use some animal products. They're either dietary vegans or not vegans at all depending on your pov.

I feel your pain. I have a best friend who is vegetarian and we both love France, but whenever we go there we have to choose places that have vegetarian options. Which cuts out pretty much anywhere that does cheap tourist menus. As there are two vegetarians in your group, it seems the obvious solution is to let them go and do their thing while the rest of you do yours, then meet up later for drinks as others have suggested.

I became veggie in 1984 - in a wee town the back of beyond, and there was perfectly adequate information around back then.

Besides the concept of ‘I don’t want to eat animals because I don’t want to have a creature killed to feed me’ pretty much covers fish, poultry and lard I’d have thought.

I have a couple of family members like that and they are not vegetarian. We have a (female) family meet-up once a year and these two never want to book anywhere, they want to (as you say) 'traipse' around so that they can 'look' at all the restaurants and menus. We meet in the same location/city every time. What tended to happen was that we would find one that looked nice and had space but we would then have to look at a few more, then we'd go back to find the nice one fully booked. A couple of years ago the rest of us put our foot/feet down and now book (to much grumbling from the pair). We let them have the choice of which restaurant to book for one night - they still moan.

This can be just a personality type of thing. And yes it's very annoying.

I’ve been a veggie for 15 years. No meat, no fish, no gelatine, no stock, no leather. If the animal has to die for it to be available, I don’t want it. I can survive on a healthy diet that excludes meat so I will. I’d love to go vegan but I don’t think I could make that work at the moment.