When do we tell DSC we're getting married?

[Whentotell123]

We're recently engaged and we've booked our wedding abroad so it'll just be the two of us. We then plan to have a big party when we return and everyone (including DSC) will be there.

We're unsure when to tell the DSC that we're marrying. The relationship with the kids is great but their Mum can be a little difficult at time. We know she's going to put negative things into their heads about my DP not loving them etc.

I know this because recently we've had DSD in tears asking why DP loves them less now he is getting married. When asked where this has come from she's said Mummy said so. There are multiple examples like this so it's not a one off.

DP will miss two afternoon visits to the DC when we're away. These don't affect overnight arrangements and are simply go out for dinner. DSiL has said she can have the children on those days so it doesn't affect their Mum too much but I still am debating when is the best time to tell her?

We're booked to marry end of April so I was thinking maybe tell in February time. Or we were debating about just going on holiday then surprise them with the party. What's best?

DSC are aged 13, 10 and 6.

This thread is too long and I didn't read the whole thing but here's my take as a mum and stepmum;

1. you started a thread to ask when you should tell the kids about your wedding abroad, you then back peddle like mad (and pretend they won't even care) after almost everyone bar 1 person tells you it is a BAD IDEA.

2. these kids will care because they've already told DP they care, that they are upset and feel pushed out - You ARE pushing them out. They are his children and he should not get married without them. PERIOD.

3. yes, it does cost £600 on a Sunday but it costs £85 on a Friday and around £45 on any other weekday so pull the kids out of school for the day, get married, have a meal, tell them how wonderful they are, how much they mean to you and how pleased you are to be joining THEIR family and then tell them about the big party when you get back from your honeymoon.

4. I can't speak for the ex but I do speak from experience when I say that the majority of breakups are 6 of one and half a dozen of another so whilst the ex may well be saying things she shouldn't, you are behaving every inch the evil step mother, so don't expect a good relationship in the future with these kids (who will one day be adults and will SHRED you later on).

5. Do not think for one moment your DP will pick his kids over you in the long term because whilst he might do it over the wedding (he's thinking mainly of the sex) I guarantee you 2 will be fighting over his kids for the next 10 years or more ....... so buckle up buttercup.

I know EXACTLY what you're doing: you're the younger model with no "baggage", a banging body, who gives him endless sex and who tells your DP the sun shines out of his very own arse... which of course he LOVES.

You both booked a totally self absorbed wedding not giving one thought to the kids because you are both so consumed with showing off to his ex (and making her feel as small and shit as possible) that you've only just realised you may have created a problem and you want us to tell you how to get out of it; well we gave you the benefit of the doubt and have told you what the right thing to do is.

You've proved you actually don't give a shit. It's not what you wanted to hear because you are not interested in his kids, much less include them. You just want to get one over on the ex.

You know what to do. Do it or don't but don't expect sympathy with that attitude and don't expect the kids to forgive you because they won't.

Also: what the @TheGreatestCape said.

I mean, seriously?

If the wedding abroad is just a formality then have a registry office wedding here before you go and have the kids there. You are being so cruel & unfeeling. I cant actually believe my eyes. His poor kids and ex wife

How sad that the children are “used to” their parents going on holiday without them.

Please don't exclude the kids, take them with you or do it before you go on honeymoon. Even if you delay the wedding for a while and save more money to take the kids abroad with you. You can go for 2 weeks they could go for ceremony and a week and a trusted member of family could go too, and bring them home, so you still have your honeymoon, and everyone is happy.

Cecilandsnail I think you have definitely identified the objective.

OP is hoping to have her own, exclusive little family with DH's past totally erased. Probably hoping to concieve on honeymoob and live in perfect bliss thereafter.

Whentotell123
I am quite shocked at the number of people who are saying you are "excluding the DSC from your Wedding". They haven't listened to you and haven't taken on board what you said.
For example, you said that when you are abroad:
"the actual wedding to us is merely a legal formality" to you. That is exactly how I see it!
There is 1 getting married. = legally registering your marriage
and 2 "having a Wedding ceremony" = asking family and friends to celebrate and share the joy of your Wedding (and if Religious, pray for you).
The 1st is the legal part. I really do not think it is essential for the DSC to be at that. Indeed, in most Church marriage ceremonies, this, being merely about the secular law, is done to one side, semi hidden from the congregation.
The 2nd part can easily include the two of you saying your vows to each other including the children. You may do whatever you want having everything else that the Wedding celebration needs for a wonderful day. The children may say how they want this to go. Tell them it isn't a wedding for the two grown ups because you two aren't on your own. You have people who you can't do this without. It's a special Ceremony and Celebration of the Day they joined together as step bothers/sisters and the two families joined! Ask them to write what they want to say, should they desire this. Of course they may paint/draw pictures instead. It all counts!

I can see your OH's reasoning about getting the legal part done together and having the Wedding Celebration as a separate party. It would be so much better for the DSC. After all, the legal part usually takes place in one place and then it requires transport to the Reception. If you have a simple no frills marriage it does not preclude having a wonderful bells and whistles Wedding where the DSC may be whatever they choose (Bride's maids, guards of honour...) and say/do whatever they choose.

I suggested earlier that you started the process of introducing them to the idea that you are going to get married as soon as you can and taking it in stage letting each stage sink in but make sure they know in plenty of time. Make sure you explain that there is the legal side of having the fact that you are married made official - signing forms and so on and the wonderful side where you share your happiness with your most loved people, your children, family and friends. Tell the DSC this last part is what is important to you. There is absolutely no reason why you can't reenact the whole ceremony without a Vicar/Registrar and have one/all the children walk you up the "aisle" of the party room and not give you away but join your family with your OH's family and say their pieces. You can do all this at a Ceremony after your holiday/honeymoon together where you covered the legal bit.
There are countries in which the "legal bit" is done before the ceremony begins - The couple go to the Registrar or Mayor or Town Hall and get their marriage registered and then get in cars and head for the church and have the ceremony. I do not see any reason for taking a few weeks between the registering of your marriage and the celebration of your wedding! I do not see why you cannot have a lovely wedding after you have registered that you are legally married! As I said, some countries do it that way as far as I can remember - sorry forgotten exactly which but I know it's in Europe. (Second thoughts is it France? i really ought to know!)

Don't be daunted by these people who can't see the difference between the marriage licence and the Wedding Ceremony! Do it your way! Take it to heart that this is your special day! Two days! 1 - One just you two and 2 - the next, glorious and full of all the speeches and vows and all that the children want to say (encouraged by you) day of your Wedding Ceremony.

You can easily make this clear on your invitations. - Another perfect job to include the children!

X y and z (the DSC) have the greatest pleasure of inviting
xxx
to the Special Wedding Celebration of A and B
and the joining of families of x,y and z.
on, at etc
This special Wedding will be a ceremony to celebrate the joining both A and B and their children as a family. By this date A and B will have legally registered their marriage, but want you to be with them on this important day to celebrate with them and the children the beginning of their new life all together. rsvp.

I hope that explains it!
Do it your way!

Lots of love my dear. I'm an oldie and have seen a lot, the fact that you ask for advice about the DSC shows how much you want to make sure they are looked after. Lots of love! x

*Well, I'm glad we cleared that up. Twenty-seven pages of near-total consensus, including advice from dozens of women who've introduced a step-parent to their DC's lives or become stepmothers themselves... and it's all just part of the Mumsnet anti-stepmother conspiracy.

Thanks for bringing this to our attention. Clearly, many stepmothers have been dangerously brainwashed already and are attempting to radicalise others with their stories of 'kindness' and 'consideration'.

Honestly, I don't know how the self-appointed level-headed, pragmatic people stand it here; it's lucky there's so few of them they'd fit in one taxi when they go back to the real world. Thank you once again for correcting the hysterical masses' misconceptions in such a non-patronising manner!*

Oh here we go. Yes it's a total near (oxymoron there) consensus, that is why I was agreeing with another poster that there is a general mindset in a majority of this forum designed for people who want to spend their days discussing parenting - which surely is obvious btw, you wouldn't question whether people on an angling forum might be a bit more passionate about fishing than the general public - but that this mindset is unlikely to be shared by a majority of people in general.

For example, there have been several comments saying something like at their wedding everything was organised for their children/step children, they also said vows and were front and centre all the way through, and that surely that's the OBVIOUS way of doing it, right?? And yet in the real world, most of us have probably been to or heard of weddings of people who have kids that are just sat in the front row watching, and maybe mentioned in passing in the ceremony, and nobody thinks there is anything cruel going on. The occasion is just not so much about them.

It's only in recent years that the mentality of the child coming first in all instances has even been a thing, in earlier times and different cultures children have been seen as a commodity to the parents. I wouldn't go that far, but I do think that children should have a place as part of the family rather than the sole focus of it, and make concessions for others as others make concessions for them. In the real world, this is the view most take. On MN it is not so.

On MN there is a majority view that people will come out in droves to suggest is the only viable view, but that doesn't mean the same follows in a more neutral environment.

Hardly a shocking consensus.

Oh, this is so sad.

If the OP doesn’t think the DC will mind - she could invite them and let them say no.

What’s that? They WOULD like to be at their dad’s wedding? How about that...

Of course we’ve had the old ”mumsnet hates step mums” malarkey brought up by @Jellyrunner but it is totally untrue on this thread. Many step mums have said the OP is way out of line and as a step mum, I agree she is massively selfish and BU. I didn’t marry DH, I married DH with his daughter as part of that. It was never ever going to be a joining of us 2, we were making a new part of the family. It’s always worked out well for us. Step families can work. This one is doomed, those kids are clearly expressing unhappiness and this is going to make it worse. Why? It can be resolved but the OP doesn’t want to, neither does her supposedly loving father of a fiancé. Good luck if you do have kids with this man who only pays lip service to his children’s emotions wellbeing!

@AE18 I get what you're saying.

I'm not a step mum, I do have one and I have a stepdad and adore them both. I do see that they often get a bad wrap on here I just feel that in this particular case these comments aren't because she's a step mum.

My DF and DSM got married without us knowing as kids and I can honestly say the picture of them at their wedding day (just a casual thing, no white dress etc) is scarred I’m my mind because I found it so hurtful that we didn’t know and weren’t invited.

Please consider what this will do to those children OP, Imagine how much better the bond will be between you and them and how they will feel to be involved... not that it’s relevant but you’ll also be proving their mum wrong. Going away without them will just prove that actually daddy doesn’t give a shit anymore. It’s not their fault their parents aren’t together anymore but imagine if you have kids with dh and then down the line you split and your kids are excluded from the secret wedding.

@WhenISnappedAndFarted

I agree this thread isn't really about the step mum element (though it does bring out a lot of nastiness), but I was more agreeing with the part of the comment about MN posters being on another planet. An awful lot of the time you'd get a very different response in real life with much less scandal than you do on here on pretty much any subject.

I've read every comment and feel a little sick at each update from the OP

This is not about step mum bashing, or weddings or holidays. This is about the lives of these children, their future, and their family. Whatever OP says, they will be a family. The decision to cut them out of the official making of that family is one that can do no good.

I'm sad for the children, and a little bit sad for you, OP. But not much. I think you sound naive, selffish and stupid, to be honest. Your 'DH' to be sounds worse. You got some great advice on this thread, but hey-ho. Do as you will.

I do hope we are all wrong in our predictions for this 'family' in the future. I mean that.

Also, don't understand OP why you're saying it's just the wedding, not a big deal, it's the party that's important?

To his kids, any kids actually, a holiday abroad is a big fucking deal (and one that they're excluded from. Another poster asked why are they use to parents holidaying without them? Are they routinely excluded from family holidays or are these extra ones?) AND a parents wedding is a massive fucking deal so they're doubly excluded.

If, as you say the weddings not a big deal surely you'd do it mid week at the registry office just the 2 of you for fifty quid. It obviously is a big deal and that's why you've planned a lovely wedding abroad, but for fucks sake take the kids or change your plans as a wedding that excludes them sends a strong message that you don't see them as part of the family and an equal part of the package with their dad. And as for what he's thinking..........

Sorry just RTFT and I’ve just got to add one more thing OP as i have been a step child excluded from my dads wedding

My dad had an ex wife before my mum, they had 3 kids... my 3 half siblings I never met because apparently their mum twisted them against my dad and he gave up.

He then had me and my DB with my DM and they split when I was 2

Didn’t have a great relationship with my dad because my mum hated him, twisted us against him (we still saw him though) even though he pretty much gave up and wasn’t too bothered as the wedding proved

The thing is, my mother was toxic and so was my siblings dm... we all grew up without our DF because he had given up but he left us to our toxic DM

It took me 30 years to break free from my mum and now I have no contact.

I grew up knowing my step mum couldn’t care less, I felt like my dad couldn’t care less

Same with my half siblings who grew up self harming and with other mental health issues

So my point is, don’t just drop the kids like this and resign yourself to just being there at his visits and no more because of how their mum is

The fact that she’s twisting their view is even more of a reason why you should be there for them ABOVE AND BEYOND the call of duty.

Dropping them out of the wedding will only add fuel to her fire if she’s inclined to twisting the kids and it will only help to push those kids even deeper into believing her and that could set them up for a lifetime of mental health issues as you’re basically proving to them that she’s right

there is a general mindset in a majority of this forum designed for people who want to spend their days discussing parenting

Discussing parenting? Most Mumsnet threads which run for 28 pages get this far because everyone is arguing. Debates rage back and forth. There are massive derailments, much ill-feeling, links to studies and articles, and a complete lack of concord. There's no general mindset about anything (SAHM or WOHM, breast or bottle, shoes on or off?), and no taboo against refusing to be completely child-centric in your parenting decisions. Posters who are intensely focused on their own kids may disagree with those who aren't, and say emotive things, but they're equally liable to be told to get a life in return. it's generally a pretty varied debate and it's just mythical that the unthinking collective of Mumsnet will turn upon thee if you break the rule.

Sometimes a lot of people disagree with you because you're being a twat. That's all. It's not a conspiracy, or groupthink. You haven't picked the wrong focus group. I'm pretty sure I could stand at Waterloo all day tomorrow asking people: second wedding? would you invite your kids? and a considerable majority would say of course before they pushed me out the way.

And I could try to obfuscate by asking 'do you believe children should be the sole focus and rulers of the family?', 'do you believe modern parenting is too child-centric?' and so on, and probably get a wider variety of answers, but that's just distraction from the actual question, which relates to your kids and your wedding. And that's not a complicated one, for most people.

Also: parents and step-parents have contributed their own wedding experiences here, which range from stepchildren being invited (but declining) to stepchildren playing a very active role in the ceremony. Not one person has insisted that their way was the OBVIOUS way of doing things. It's just cheap misrepresentation to act like everyone is pressing very specific yet contrary demands.

The one thing all these weddings had in common is that the DC were considered. There are a million options for the ceremony, but invited/not-invited is a very stark division and all the straw-men in the world about over-indulged children, hysterical MNers and modern parenting styles isn't going to change that.

Emma isn't reading - she desperately wants tacky tiki torches at her free wedding far away from her partner's baggage children.

I do think she hasn't got the emotional intelligence or insight to make a blended family work.

I feel sorry for the kids.

But hey! Tacky tiki torches at her free wedding!

My DDad got married to SM in Secret & only told me after - this was more than 25 years ago and I have never forgiven him for it.

XH remarried abroad and told my DC and his DS after the fact. There was no party afterwards because he had to live abroad because this woman could not gain entry to the UK at all. DD2 was utterly devastated. He hadn't mentioned this woman even in passing to any of them. DD1, at the time, still wore rose-tinted glasses where he was concerned and wasn't bothered (she said). His DS was also very hurt.

If there are already issues with the DSC's mum, then this will just add fuel to the fire that is already burning. Excluding his kids is just playing right into the ex-wife's hands. I was so angry at XH for hurting DD2 that if he had been standing in front of me, I would have stabbed him. Please don't do that to his DC.

I found it so sad to read the childeen are used to seeing their mother and father going on holiday without them. Why are their parents not taking them on holiday?

Op first said the wedding was free with the holiday package when cost was questioned, then said she wouldnt cancel the wedding as she didnt want to lose money, when told how bad an idea this is. That was confusing.

And finally, how many holidays are you planning on not
Taking the next child on? How many have you not
Taken the step children on.

The kids are obviously an inconvenience to the op and her partner their dad. They're probably used to be pushed aside at holiday time, big occasions etc. Pretty awful.

Never in the history of MN have I been as pissed off with a thread as I am with this one. Emma isn’t coming back, Emma makes all Emma’s not want to be named Emma!

What you have to wonder OP is how you are going to handle the fact that if he can treat his DC in this way to please a woman who clearly manipulated such a wedding to push the kids out then he will much likely treat your future DC the same