To start using my Dr title everywhere?

[Fyette]

I am 35 years old, but was born with the mixed genetic blessing of always looking far younger than my actual age. I still regularly get asked for ID in pubs and even at the cinema. I have a DD and people tend to assume I am a (very) young mother.

And yes, sometimes this is nice and flattering.

But like all women, and especially young women, I seem to get patronised a lot. I especially notice it at my DDs school (and before that with the HV), or in semi-formal settings.

I have a PhD and have never used my dr title outside of work, because I don't want to seem like a twat, basically. But sometimes I feel seeming like an obnoxious twat might be preferable to having to put up with this general condescension. Perhaps if I start introducing myself as Dr Fyette I will be taken more seriously? AIBU?

(Mind you: I do not think young women without a PhD deserve to be patronised any more than I do.)

Thanks squeakyboy, interesting...

I guess a bit of the last paragraph is because of differences in the titles of academic positions. Lecturer, Senior Lecturer/ Reader, Professor here (with only the last having the Prof used) and Assistant Professor, Associate Professor, Professor in the US where all are called Prof.

Though some UK unis are now moving to the US titles to help with international recruitment.

Sorry, derail...

You've worked extremely hard for your title, definitely use it. But you will probably have people showing you their piles and ingrowing toenails 🙈😂

@AWitchesHat
Thing is that is YOUR experience and choice. I rather think pp’s are referring to other posters who perhaps don’t have PhD’s, asking whether they use the term Mrs. Certainly I would be more interested in hearing non-PhD’s reasoning for Dr being Twatty but Mrs being perfectly legit.

Given that the people who asked the question specifically asked why people who think it's unnecessary to use Dr don't feel the same way about using Mrs, and given that I do feel the same way, I'm not sure why you think my opinion is irrelevant, other than because you don't agree with it.

Also your anecdotal evidence of men not using the title is just that. Anecdata. My experience regarding men using these titles is the complete opposite.

You're right; I haven't carried out a large-scale, statistically significant, peer-reviewed study of when and where men and women use their titles. I presume you haven't either.

Like everyone else on this thread, including you, I've contributed my personal experience, which is that the use of a title in irrelevant situations is not differentiated by sex.

Many other posters have said the same as me. Presumably none of us have carried out proper studies, but this is an internet discussion forum based on opinion and personal experience.

It's no better - or worse - for women to boast and show off than it is for men. It's embarrassing in either case.

@moonbells

Feminism/sexism aside, the bigger issue is that Brits are quite often huge inverse snobs when it comes to academic achievement. In the US, being 'smart' is seen as something amazing. Here, your're a 'know it all' or 'smart arse' or 'perpetual student' or something equally sarcastic.

It's not limited to academic achievement. In Britain we have a culture of self-deprecation, humour, humility, and a sense of our own ridiculousness. (I'm Jewish, so this goes x10 within my community.)

In the USA, the dominant cultural norms are about 'bigging yourself up', shouting about your achievements, money, status, sexual attractiveness, sporting triumphs, whatever.

I know which one I prefer and which one I want to be part of. You obviously feel differently and that's your prerogative.

I wonder if it’s only ever a woman that would even ask this question...?
I think you should follow what the norm is in your field ... and use it where and when you feel comfortable to use it

@Rubicon80 "In Britain we have a culture of self-deprecation, humour, humility, and a sense of our own ridiculousness."

Actually I don't feel differently to you about self-deprecation and humility etc. cross-pond. I think this is a good way of living.

However, sarcastic and unhelpful comments about others' achievements are something else. Especially when someone has fragile enough self-worth as it is (and very frequently is female). Being repeatedly told you're not capable of doing something by a peer or being vilified for following a perfectly reasonable dream can lead to some severe MH difficulties and this is where the darker side of UK attitudes really don't help. (Not pretending other cultures have it right, either).

See politicians' "We've all had enough of experts" line for a classic example.

Question is, how to bolster people so they can follow their dreams without going too far into the 'shouting about it' realm... but as I said, this is getting all too far off thread now.

@Rubicon80- I don’t think your opinion is irrelevant, it is interesting that you are consistent regarding Dr and Mrs, and that you have clearly thought about what works for you.
However, I would also like to know why pp’s without PhD’s would consider Dr twatty but happily use Mrs. Because I find that dissonant thinking.

However, sarcastic and unhelpful comments about others' achievements are something else. Especially when someone has fragile enough self-worth as it is (and very frequently is female). Being repeatedly told you're not capable of doing something by a peer or being vilified for following a perfectly reasonable dream can lead to some severe MH difficulties and this is where the darker side of UK attitudes really don't help. (Not pretending other cultures have it right, either).

There is a HUGE gulf between villifying and denigrating a vulnerable person, at one end of the spectrum, and going around showing off about your achievements/status (academic or otherwise) and expecting better treatment than others because of it.

See politicians' "We've all had enough of experts" line for a classic example.

I agree with you about anti-intellectualism. I am not by any stretch of the imagination an anti-intellectual.

But speaking as someone who spent about eight years at university, followed by twelve years working in other fields, I have to say I've met a far bigger range of people, and more people that I'd describe as intelligent, insightful, capable, impressive, etc. in the non-academic world.

I really don't think there's much of a correlation (in my personal experience) between level of academic achievement and any other qualities, other than the ones that are directly related to the ability to pass exams: scrupulous attention to detail, ability to stick at something long-term, etc.

The most intelligent, creative and brilliant person I've ever known was my ex, and he couldn't finish his PhD. Not because he wasn't clever enough, but it was the academic atmosphere. His mental health wasn't up to it. There were far, far less intelligent people within his department who were able to go through the necessary steps to get their PhDs.

Definitely use your title, you earned it and it is yours to use. I use mine, and it brings me joy to not have to put down my marriage status everytime i fill in a form.

There was a huge movement on twitter to encourage women with doctorates to use their title.

Dr Thamantha

@AWitchesHat I don’t think your opinion is irrelevant, it is interesting that you are consistent regarding Dr and Mrs, and that you have clearly thought about what works for you. However, I would also like to know why pp’s without PhD’s would consider Dr twatty but happily use Mrs. Because I find that dissonant thinking.

I agree with you that it is dissonant thinking. I hope someone who holds that opinion responds to you.

I find Mrs more cringey than Dr though; I'll use Dr when I need to, but I will never, ever be a Mrs as long as I live. It makes me feel like I'm going to grow a big unibosom and start carrying a handbag and wearing floral tea dresses.

The twitter usage can be seen by the hashtag #immodest women
Here's an article on how it started:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44496876

I'm due to start my PhD next year and you can bet I'll be using the title of Dr if I manage to finish it! A PhD is a huge amount of work and that title is well and truly earned.

I think doctorates are only really valued within academia.

Those who think their medical doctors were impressed... doctors feign interest/being impressed by whatever a patient's career is. Because it's polite.

I find Mrs more cringey than Dr though; I'll use Dr when I need to, but I will never, ever be a Mrs as long as I live. I agree, my marital status is my personal business and I resent being asked the question, I didn't take dh's name, I was Ms before I married and Ms after I married.
I find it weird that people think Mrs delivers privilege.

What is your Doctorate in , just out of interest? I would use it if i had one but would be careful how i approached people so as not to be patronising. I know two People who are Dr's of Philosophy and they could not be more different. One is so down to earth and modest about it and uses the title in a Professional environment only and the other is so full of themselves.

Use it! It's funny how when women get married they are (mostly) happy to change title to Mrs but yet think women who have earned a doctorate are twats for using their hard earned title of Dr. Apparently it is more socially acceptable for women to identify themselves by marital status than level of qualification. Sad times.
Also, interestingly not many people realise that Dr is only an honorary title for medical doctors, as they don't usual have doctorates.

I think you’d just sound like a pompous show off. I wouldn’t do it. Surely you don’t need the validation.

MaisieDaisy1

I think you’d just sound like a pompous show off. I wouldn’t do it. Surely you don’t need the validation

Do you use mrs? Why? Surely you don’t need the validation?

We really really REALLY need a title word for women that is a reasonable equivalent of Mr.

I vote we go Botswanan with Mma and Rra....

I suspect a lot of women like the status “mrs” conveys.

See many threads on changing names and being “proud” to be a wife.

Which is why no one can explain why Mrs isn’t twatty but dr is....

@M3lon

We really really REALLY need a title word for women that is a reasonable equivalent of Mr.

We do. It's Ms. I've used it for about 25 years, no problems yet.

@bluebluezoo

See many threads on changing names and being “proud” to be a wife.

If you actually read those threads you'd see that that is a minority view. Perhaps not in the country as a whole, but it's not the popular view on MN (good).

Maybe the rise of AI will fix everything....men and women will be Pr. (person) and AIs will be Ar.

I quite like Pr.

I might start using it...except I am also Dr. in reality.

I guess there is Mx as well.

Ms has some real negative connotations for some though. I know someone who recently used Ms to refer to one of his students and she bit his head off.

Rubicon80 "I find Mrs more cringey than Dr though; ... but I will never, ever be a Mrs as long as I live. It makes me feel like I'm going to grow a big unibosom and start carrying a handbag and wearing floral tea dresses."

That we can emphatically agree on!! (though I do quite like florals...)

I vote we go Botswanan with Mma and Rra....
I love Mma and Rra- if only we lived in the world of Mma Ramotswe we wouldn't need to worry about respect, and traditionally built persons could eat a few pieces of cake with their tea and not worry about being fat shamed.

But you really, really overestimate the degree (pun intended) to which anyone outside the academic bubble gives a flying fuck about peer-reviewed journals or vivas.

I'm going to take a wild guess that you're still in academia.

I know many people don’t know and maybe don’t care what goes into the awarding of a PhD. I was replying to someone who said they believed people are more “impressed” by someone whose title is “Dr” because that’s their job. I thought it might be interesting for people to know that it’s not just another three years of study.

And I’m not still in academia, hence why I wasn’t sure whether the viva system was still the same as when I did it.