To start using my Dr title everywhere?

[Fyette]

I am 35 years old, but was born with the mixed genetic blessing of always looking far younger than my actual age. I still regularly get asked for ID in pubs and even at the cinema. I have a DD and people tend to assume I am a (very) young mother.

And yes, sometimes this is nice and flattering.

But like all women, and especially young women, I seem to get patronised a lot. I especially notice it at my DDs school (and before that with the HV), or in semi-formal settings.

I have a PhD and have never used my dr title outside of work, because I don't want to seem like a twat, basically. But sometimes I feel seeming like an obnoxious twat might be preferable to having to put up with this general condescension. Perhaps if I start introducing myself as Dr Fyette I will be taken more seriously? AIBU?

(Mind you: I do not think young women without a PhD deserve to be patronised any more than I do.)

“That being said OP, don't use it if you visit a hospital, unless it's in a professional capacity of course”

Why not? Granted my phd is in medical research, but usually I am asked what field and it’s a good conversation starter. Plus it helps them level up the medical speech a bit.

When my mum had cancer the relief on the dr’s face when he realised he could explain properly- they had made the decision not to treat as the chances were she’d live far longer without treatment. My mum had got upset as she’d assumed she was in for chemo/radio etc and thought they were just letting her die. Poor dr thought he was in for a fight I think when she brought relatives!

I think it's a bit odd - it makes you sound like you are insecure about something.

@JonSnowIsALoser I bet you, no man with a PhD would drop the hard-earned title in favour of Mr. Why are we so worried about perceived showing off?

Sorry, you lose your bet.

My husband is also a PhD and, like me, doesn't use it very often at all.

He's Dr in work situations and on financial/legal documents.

Otherwise he just uses Mr.

It's not a specifically female belief that not everyone needs to walk around all the time bigging up how great they are.

I don't need or want to tell the world how academically qualified I am, just like I don't want or need to tell them whether or not I'm married.

'Taking up space', 'leaning in' and 'celebrating achievement' constantly seem like American imports. I'm an ardent feminist (and for this reason have been a Ms consistently since the age of about 12) but being a strong woman isn't the same thing as boasting and showing off your status symbols when it's completely unnecessary.

Blue, I'm not saying you should hide your qualification if asked, or if it's appropriate to say so. But announcing "I'm Dr Poovey here to see Mrs Smith" would be misleading.

Yes, go for it - you’ve earned it! Not like a PhD is easy to come by.

Dh works in management consultancy - I was cc'd into an email where one of his colleagues (male) signed himself off as Dr with Phd title listed, which had no connection to the area they worked in - my immediate thought on reading the email was - are they very junior? I get that they were proud but it was oddly out of place.

That is something to be very proud of! Definitely use the DR title!

Pam - no you're right , "the school gates" is the wrong expression. I was just being general. I'm on the school board of governors and don't use my title. I don't at all pretend I'm not Dr at work- but that's because it's important there. It's not important elsewhere. It's an indication I undertook a period of study. That's all. Other people do more impressive things that are not reflected in added titles.

Part of why I don't use it outside work is because I don't want people to suck up/be deferential just because I have an MD/PhD I'd rather just have normal behaviour bad or good unvarnished.

Also agree with a PP that people work hard in lots of ways and may or may not have letters after their name so it does seem a bit point scoring. It all smacks a bit of a low grade 'don't you know who I am' type attitude

“That being said OP, don't use it if you visit a hospital, unless it's in a professional capacity of course”
Why not? Granted my phd is in medical research, but usually I am asked what field and it’s a good conversation starter. Plus it helps them level up the medical speech a bit.

Agreed. Like the OP, I'm never sure whether to use my Dr title or not, but I got fed-up of being dismissed by GPs, so eventually switched to Dr on my medical records.

Its brilliant! They (almost) always ask what sort of Dr I am, and when i explain it's a PhD, ask what field it is. Mine is medically-related, so we often end up in a really interesting conversation about it. At least three consults in the last couple of years I can remember where we were talking about some of my research, and one of the consultants sent me a copy of a relevant poster his team had recently done. It's definitely changed the level at which they pitch their discussion during appointments.

Yes, YABU.

The etiquette on this is clear. You can use your academic title in an academic context. Otherwise - don’t. The rationale is obvious: it suggests you think you’re better or cleverer than other people. Just be yourself! That should be enough.

Well this is just lovely. Low grade, twatty, pretentious etc etc.
This is how pp have described a formal title, earned, not given or inherited.
I showed my daughter this thread as an example of women not supporting women. I also pointed out that many of the examples of people who don’t use their title are husbands, brothers or other males.
A young looking woman came on (and how now vanished) and asked a question that the majority of males would never consider.
Yes as a pp said, lean in, take up space and show future women how to be proud of what they have worked for.

I am so desperate to be a PhD that I once bought an old tatty car because it had PHD in the number plate and I knew it was the only way I was going to get one!

Got it? Flaunt it!!

I know 3males with PhDs one including Prof and1 female with PhD. Not one uses the Dr salutation other than at work. No way would it be used otherwise. You should be pleased you are mistaken for being younger. Just wait a few years, you'll wonder how you could possibly have complained.

Once a Dr becomes a Dr then that is their title @AmateurDad; and the correct etiquette is to use and be addressed by your correct title.

Brilliant post @Paleninteresting and I agree with every word. It’d be interesting to do a proper analysis of this thread to see the kind of language used, wouldn’t it! So much for the sisterhood...

Non of the male PhD Doctors or male Medical Doctors in my family use the term Doctor unless it's for work . They have chatted about why they don't in front of me and it's because they think it's naff.

Use it. You earned it.

When I was in my 30's, people usually thought I was still in my 20's. When I got to my mid 40's people started thinking I'm older than I actually am; though I think that is more about the fact that I now use a walker when I'm out (due to health issues). However, I apparently sound (very) young on the phone. I often get phone calls, where the caller asks to speak to my mother or father. One call I remember clearly, my response was "Excuse me?" Then she said "OH, you're an adult. I thought...I'm sorry, I..." Then she got on with the point of the call. I used to think it was amusing. Now it's getting annoying. I'd love to be able to respond with "Dr Warburton speaking". I can imagine the reaction.

So use your title. Use it with pride.

My friend is a Dr (not medical) & I'm very proud of her so always address her birthday card to Dr Friend. Do it! Be proud of yourself.

I am sat here at 3am in the morning writing a PhD (and mumsnetting). I'd probably use it more in your situation if people are patronising you, but they might think you are a little bit full of yourself. One things for sure though, I certainly won't have the issue of looking really young staying up all night trying to finish the bloody thing!

Absolutely! Unless you put your hand up when you are on a plane and there is a call-out “Is there a doctor on board?”.... and your Ph.D. is in Ancient Icelandic Poetry, not Medicine. (Actually happens, believe it or not....)

The etiquette on this is clear. You can use your academic title in an academic context. Otherwise - don’t. The rationale is obvious: it suggests you think you’re better or cleverer than other people. Just be yourself! That should be enough

Does the same apply to married women @AmateurDad?

They should only use Mrs in situations where marital status is relevant, or it suggests they think they’re better or more desirable to males than unmarried women?

If the etiquette was that clear, there’d be no need for this thread, would there?

I dint use mine unless a) it's a professional setting and legitimizes my role as lead/authority on something or b) people ask if it is Miss or Mrs, to which I say Dr as neither Miss or Mrs reflect what I identify as. Ms is the closest, but has connotations of being divorced which is not accurate.

I don't differentiate between men and women in this situation at all- my views are exactly the same on men using their work related titles. DH doesn't use his either.
It's not about women not supporting women

I'll definitely be using mine when I've finished my PhD. It's not like we haven't worked for it!

The rationale is obvious: it suggests you think you’re better or cleverer than other people

As an invisible middle aged woman, it isn’t about me thinking I’m better or cleverer than other people.

It’s about forcing other people to stop dismissing or ignoring me, and especially talking to dh or other man in the room over me.

It’s about making people realise that women are much more than child bearers and housekeepers, and quite often to have the spending power of a man, and don’t need a man to make large purchases.

I realised this when my mum was widowed many years ago, and suddenly shops, banks etc started refusing her credit cards and interest free deals, purely because she had no husband (yes, we asked). She had a fairly large income in her own name.

Using my dr is a fuck you to all those people who assume women need to have a man to support them.