To start using my Dr title everywhere?

[Fyette]

I am 35 years old, but was born with the mixed genetic blessing of always looking far younger than my actual age. I still regularly get asked for ID in pubs and even at the cinema. I have a DD and people tend to assume I am a (very) young mother.

And yes, sometimes this is nice and flattering.

But like all women, and especially young women, I seem to get patronised a lot. I especially notice it at my DDs school (and before that with the HV), or in semi-formal settings.

I have a PhD and have never used my dr title outside of work, because I don't want to seem like a twat, basically. But sometimes I feel seeming like an obnoxious twat might be preferable to having to put up with this general condescension. Perhaps if I start introducing myself as Dr Fyette I will be taken more seriously? AIBU?

(Mind you: I do not think young women without a PhD deserve to be patronised any more than I do.)

I don't really use a title day to day - does anyone?
My Dr is on my bank card and my work ID (which I wear most of the time I am working) - but people rarely read that closely, and it is even rarer that people mention it. My boss has brought it out to higher management because it is of relevance to the diversity of the workforce.
And if asked for a title I use it, and it is recorded in my passport.

But then the male Drs I know also use theirs as we all worked hard for it (it's a bit like a campaign medal in the army), and just occasionally it can open doors or prompt a conversation - and doors such as either being relevant or someone talking to us like we are intelligent.

Oh and everything @bluebluezoo said!

I wouldn't, it would make me cringe to use it in non professional situations.

@policeandthieves

I don't differentiate between men and women in this situation at all- my views are exactly the same on men using their work related titles. DH doesn't use his either.
It's not about women not supporting women

I agree completely.

I and several other posters have made this point repeatedly but we have been resoundingly ignored by those who are determined that it MUST be about sexism.

It's not. I am a passionate lifelong feminist.

This is not about feminism. It's about boasting and showing off and self-aggrandisement.

I've had my PhD for over 12 years. Been married for 5 ish. I don't believe that either of those need to be advertised unless it is actually relevant.

For me, I'd think it was just attention seeking if used outside the professional/work environment.

This is not about feminism. It's about boasting and showing off and self-aggrandisement.

I just love that women airing their achievements is boasting. Well done you. 1 - 0 to the patriarchy right there. Nope sorry, it's working damn hard for something and being proud of it. Let them "boast" it's an achievement. Tough if it makes others feel lesser.

It's a title. Are people "boasting" when they get married and use the "Mrs" title? Of course not. Why isn't this title an issue? Because it's the traditional norm of belonging to a man that's why.

PhD owners, you wear that title with pride and forget those who try and make you feel bad. I think you're all very clever, inspiring women and when I meet you in public I'll tell you so.

DH doesn't use his as a title except professionally (very scientific, technical field where everyone does). TBH the only person I've ever known who did insist on using his all the time was a bit of a twonk about it. I fear you may inadvertently come across the same way - even though you're obviously not. So it's a choice - be patronised or risk being seen as a twonk. Although I hasten to add there were other factors which made Dr (actually) BlahBlah come across as a twonk.

I think the special treatment comes from people thinking you are a medical doctor and that still carries a certain amount of sway - are people really that impressed with Phd?

@origamiunicorn

I just love that women airing their achievements is boasting. Well done you. 1 - 0 to the patriarchy right there.

Jesus. This is like Groundhog Day. PEOPLE unnecessarily 'airing their achievements' are showing off. Men and women.

Nope sorry, it's working damn hard for something and being proud of it. Let them "boast" it's an achievement. Tough if it makes others feel lesser.

Utterly pathetic. I have a PhD. I would never think anyone would 'feel lesser' because of it. That's not why I don't go around boasting about it.

it's a title. Are people "boasting" when they get married and use the "Mrs" title? Of course not. Why isn't this title an issue? Because it's the traditional norm of belonging to a man that's why.

Ffs. Groundhog day again. I've posted this about 50 times in this thread already.

I feel EXACTLY the same about Mrs. I don't use that either. I'm a Ms as I was before I got married.

I don't feel the need to go around boasting about either my academic or marital status.

PhD owners, you wear that title with pride and forget those who try and make you feel bad. I think you're all very clever, inspiring women and when I meet you in public I'll tell you so. smile

But not me apparently. Because you disagree with my opinion.

@origamiunicorn on a form, i use Dr. but everybody who introduces himself as Dr xyz outside (and often also in) a professional context is a twat. some twats are male, sone female.

I think the special treatment comes from people thinking you are a medical doctor and that still carries a certain amount of sway - are people really that impressed with Phd?

As I posted upthread, my GP was impressed!

I wonder if those who aren’t impressed are also not aware that you have to publish your research in a peer-reviewed journal (or at least you did when I submitted my PhD), and you have a viva, which is an oral exam (mine was about two hours long), where your thesis is picked apart by three experts in the field. You really need to know your shit about your subject to get through the viva.

I also presented my research at a conference in Japan - I was 24 at the time and it was terrifying but led to me being offered a job on the back of it.

I wonder if those who aren’t impressed are also not aware that you have to publish your research in a peer-reviewed journal (or at least you did when I submitted my PhD), and you have a viva, which is an oral exam (mine was about two hours long), where your thesis is picked apart by three experts in the field. You really need to know your shit about your subject to get through the viva.

Lol. I mean, I have one so I know what's involved. But you really, really overestimate the degree (pun intended) to which anyone outside the academic bubble gives a flying fuck about peer-reviewed journals or vivas.

I'm going to take a wild guess that you're still in academia.

That's a very narrow perspective you have.

Speaking personally, i'm hugely impressed by doctors who have to make life and death decisions, nurses who deal with bodily fluids and violence and night shifts, and teachers who get up to face a class of violent, recalcitrant teenagers day after day. Not so much by an article in the Int. Proc. Soc. Pharm. Sci. that will be read by 14 people.

I also think it’s different for men.

Men are not seen as “lesser”. They do not have to fight sexism. Their penis automatically confers advantages in social and other situations.

The bank manager will likely treat them exactly the same whether they are mr or dr. A man has a job and can afford a mortgage/loan.

Until I am treated the same, i will use dr to make up for the disadvantages from ingrained sexism.

Op You will just look like Ross from Friends, telling people you are a Dr at any given opportunity, when in reality you are not like a REAL Doctor (healthcare) who IMHO deserve their title.

I recently passed my PhD. It took me a long time and was bloody hard work.

I've not rushed out to replace my drivers license, passport, bank cards etc... but when I do need to replace things or fill in forms I'm tempted to use Dr.

I'm currently a SAHM, so it's not like I'm using the title at work. And I'm certainly not asking people at playgroup or soft play to call me Dr, or going around correcting people who use Ms/Mrs. I don't expect anyone else to care or notice, but I'm proud of myself. Before this thread I hadn't even considered that people would judge me for occasionally using my correct title when directly asked....

ToftheB - Congratulations! And use it all you want.

So to conclude, using your Phd Dr title to impress people, will either make people think that you are amazing or that you are a twat...it's not without risk!

A vote would have been useful on this thread.

@ToftheB Before this thread I hadn't even considered that people would judge me for occasionally using my correct title when directly asked....

I don't think anyone has said that they ever judge anyone for giving the correct title when asked.

I give Dr if I'm asked "Miss or Mrs?" but I use Ms for e.g. making a restaurant booking online or something.

I think LannieDuck, bluebluezoo and I might be in similar fields!

I've been on several threads over the years on this question. Sadly it doesn't seem to be getting any better.

Feminism/sexism aside, the bigger issue is that Brits are quite often huge inverse snobs when it comes to academic achievement. In the US, being 'smart' is seen as something amazing. Here, your're a 'know it all' or 'smart arse' or 'perpetual student' or something equally sarcastic. This thread typifies this. OK there are always going to be people who introduce themselves as Dr this or Lord that or whatever and I bet we all know one or two (I know a medic who has Dr in his signature!). That's not what this thread's about.

My late uncle (who was a primary headteacher with no degree) used to say to me 'got a proper job yet?' during my mid-twenties while I was mid-PhD. He didn't mean it as a compliment and was very sarcastic about it. I used to feel very sorry for his pupils if even a teacher didn't think academic achievement was something to aim for. I don't think it a coincidence my cousins didn't go on to higher education. Neither did their kids. I'm still very much the odd duck in the family but I'm blowed if my DS is going to grow up feeling that academic achievement in whatever field is somehow something to hide.

Having said that, bottom line is, like so many things, that what you call yourself is up to you. Same as the threads about surnames after marriage - and people should respect what you want to be called.

(fwiw, I loathe Ms, don't really like connotations of Mrs, and have absolutely no clue what I'd be using if I'd not got Dr! Probably still use Miss... )

I might not use it everywhere but I'd love to be able to roll it out when it's useful.

@Rubicon80
‘Groundhog day again. I've posted this about 50 times in this thread already.

FFS.I feel EXACTLY the same about Mrs. I don't use that either. I'm a Ms as I was before I got married.’

Thing is that is YOUR experience and choice. I rather think pp’s are referring to other posters who perhaps don’t have PhD’s, asking whether they use the term Mrs. Certainly I would be more interested in hearing non-PhD’s reasoning for Dr being Twatty but Mrs being perfectly legit.
Also your anecdotal evidence of men not using the title is just that. Anecdata. My experience regarding men using these titles is the complete opposite.

@moonbells The following is an extract from an American forum discussing the same thing - it seems to be the same discussion as here.
The constant use of "Dr." by Ph.D.s IS pretentious. Miss Manners has addressed this. Outside of the university, you do not use the "Dr." title. This is so that in an emergency situation, a medical doctor can be located more easily. I'm serious--that's what she says, and I think she's right. You can be "Dr." on campus to your students. You must NEVER insist upon this title being used, or get in a huff because it isn't. That's the height of pettiness and egotism.

I find that in most fields people don't care about this title, or they may even feel awkward with it. Most commonly I see this insistence on "Dr." with people in Education. "Dr. Lisa Phillips, Ed.D." Not only pretentious, but redundant as well. Such a fine example for teachers-in-training.

I remember years ago when I worked in hotel reservations. A woman called up all in an uproar because, "You misspelled my name on my reservations. Thats DOCTOR Lisa Phillips!!!!" Yep, she was an Ed.D. If she only knew how my eyes rolled and how we reservationists all made fun of her and those pretentious clods like her . . . .

As far as the timing of when you may be referred to as "Dr." in academe, it does vary by institution. One of my mentors went to Harvard, and he said that there it was the term used for Ph.D. candidates pre-defense. I was writing a letter to a Harvard faculty member about a research question and he said NOT to address him as "Dr." but as "Professor." Personally, I feel you should only receive the title after your degree is actually posted and you've graduated.

@FamilyOfAliens YES

Also the twat thing isn't as prevalent as I feared when I started using mine. I've only felt like I was thought of as a twat once, and that was when I corrected someone (I had a call from an unknown number, and when they got my title AND surname wrong I was suspicious, but it was an organisation I knew, so I corrected).
Also my DH likes to use it because he enjoys calling people out on sexism when they don't read things properly and assume he must be the Dr and I must be a Mrs.

I don't think anyone has said that they ever judge anyone for giving the correct title when asked

Multiple posters have said it’s “twatty” to use dr anywhere outside a relevant work environment.

I strongly disagree with this:
Most commonly I see this insistence on "Dr." with people in Education. "Dr. Lisa Phillips, Ed.D." Not only pretentious, but redundant as well. Such a fine example for teachers-in-training

As I said a while back my first ever encounter with a phd graduate was at 17 when my physics a’level teacher was an ex-research scientist and used dr.

Had that teacher not used his title I would never have even considered a career in research. It wasn’t something i was aware of, coming from a family who had all left school at 14.

I was inspired by that teacher’s title. It also made be realise that teaching wasn’t just a profession people went in to because their a’level grades were bad or they couldn’t get another job.