...to think that children should look after elderly parents?

[wheresmymojo]

It's not a TAAT but inspired by another thread.

It seems to be a general trend that people feel like they shouldn't have any duty/obligation to care for their elderly parents anymore.

Partly I recognise that this is because societal trends make it harder to do elder care than it used to be - it's quite common to have two full time workers, be living quite far from your parents, still have DC to care for at the same time due to later births, etc.

I find it odd though that anyone wouldn't want to care for their elderly parents and find a way to make it happen.

So for example, we have just moved to live near to DH's parents who are in their 70s as while they don't need any help now, we know they will at some point in the next 10yrs.

My DM is very young (56!) so definitely doesn't need any help. I live 200 miles away but have already had the discussion that when she is elderly I'd like her to come and live with us.

I feel like I'm in the minority though these days?

I realise there are of course exceptions - any parental abuse and there will always be people who have very complex situations that mean it isn't possible (e.g. can't afford to move, already have children of their own with special needs, etc).

But I think it's sad that the average person either (a) thinks of it as an obligation/burden that they don't want to do or (b) thinks they don't have any obligation at all.

wheresmymojo Your posts come across as being very naive about this. You really don't have a clue.

I'm not going into major detail, but I love my parents deeply. I saw them pretty much destroyed by looking after my grandad when I was a teen and early 20s. I saw my dad and sibling suffer when mum was ill, before she died. I did what I could, but as a FT working single parent my time was limited. Caring for a parent is so hard. I've done my share of wiping bums, and all the other undignified stuff. This can actually ruin the parent child relationship, you know.

I've told my DCs that I'll go into a home, I'm not going to burden them. I'm fit and healthy now, at 50, but who knows what's around the corner.

My parents both died and did not need care. However one family member abused my father and got a large amount of money out of him before he died. We did not know how bad the abuse was and tried to help my father with lawyers.

You only have to read posts on here about ‘wealthy parents with big houses and their holidays, etc’ to see that many people do not have the parent’s best interests at heart.

So I don’t blame people for not wanting their children to take care of them

I do look after my elderly parents, both severely physically disabled and one also has advanced dementia, can't imagine not doing so but yabu to place that expectation on anybody but yourself. I'm able to do it because I have a very supportive employer and no children, it's still exhausting, lonely hard work and I am a professional carer so have several decades of training, skills and experience to call on.

My siblings do what they can but distance and children make it hard for them to offer more than emotional and occasional financial support....which is their choice just as providing physical live-in care is mine.

I don't have a mobile career - we both commute 3 hours a day to work.

So hang on, you've moved a 3 hour drive from work to be nearer DH's parents just in case they need care in the future? What if they never need care from you? What if they drop dead suddenly of a heart attack, and you've moved for nothing? Or if they have a stroke and need round the clock medical care and you wouldn't be able to look after them even if you wanted to? It seems like you've given up a lot for potentially nothing.

Yeah good luck with caring around that 3 hour commute.

What you really seem to be getting at is having older people move in & cohabit with their offspring. This is just one model of care. It reduces an older persons independence & limit them to a single room where they have been used to a house or flat of their own. It can devalue their assets if it involves them selling a property.

Havee you asked these various people if they want to be moved in to your home? They probably don't!!

I think the OP is just being goady.
Looking after elderly relatives is much easier said than done.
I loved my mother dearly, but she developed dementia and required 24 hours care. She was in a care home for 10 years before she died, but I was still in full time work, with children at university who I was helping to support. Remember, it is not just the income it affects, if one gives up work, but your future pension as well. I should explain that my mother did not know who I was, even before she went into the home, even though I visited weekly.
In other cases, the elderly person may have children themselves who are elderly and in poor health (as someone else I know). Many elderly people become aggressive, and many have very complex needs, that are best met by professional carers.
In some circumstances, it may be possible to look after an elderly relative, but it depends on everyone’s individual circumstances.

This is a difficult one - I know it from both sides.

I did not personally look after my parents in the years before they died as we lived too far away, but I did work very hard ensuring that there was proper care there for them.

We are now on the other side. My OH has end-stage PD (having started with this at a young age) and is now completely disabled to the extent that we have live-in care - everything else tried and failed. (don't even get me started on the battle that it is to get help and funding!). My 3 DDs and GC are in and out all the time, propping us up and sharing their outings with me to give me a break. I cannot begin to tell you how much I appreciate this - but there is a part of me that does not want their prime of life tainted with some pretty grim stuff (paranoia, diarrhoea, incontinence). I just want them to be enjoying themselves and their families.

I have reached the "in sickness" bit of the marriage vows far sooner than I would have expected - no-one knows what is round the corner.

My grandmother only lived with us for short breaks but she used to cry, then scream, then deliberately soil herself if the TV wasn't on her channel. Good luck with your family voting, tho.

It's interesting that the OP assumes the in laws (70's) or DM (56) won't need care anytime soon. My DM was 56 when she was diagnosed with Parkinson's disease, a few months after my first DC was born. She was soon wheelchair bound and has falls frequently without warning. Yes I am an older mum but not through choice (ttc 8 years before GP finally agreed to refer for IVF). My DP are also carers to 3 of my siblings who are schizophrenic. My DF has health issues too so potentially the rest of us 3 'normal' siblings could soon be carers to 5 adults. One of us (child free but lives miles away) sorts the paperwork side of things for DM's care but the rest of us (young DC and no childcare help from grandparents or uncle/aunts as are physically or mentally unable to) are made to feel like a lot of pp here have been made to feel by the OP and as a pp said they refuse to move near us to make it easier for us to physically help them as well as juggling our own very young DC's needs....

If you work full time with a three hour commute, do you really think you will be doing your mother a favour dragging her away from her local community to sit on her own in your house all day?

There are a lot of threads though where people mention some of the children 'aren't interested in caring' or 'don't want to get involved' or whatever. Which is basically what I'm talking about in my OP.

But there's nothing wrong with not wanting to look after your elderly parents! You seem to think people should want to do it - why?

Looking after elderly parents (even basic care) is hard. It's rarely as easy as just popping to the shops for them on your way home, or popping over for coffee twice a week. It's much more than that. It's absolutely okay for people to say "no, I can't cope with that".

I can imagine nothing I would want less than my sons caring for me. I don't want us to have that dynamic to our relationship, I'd much prefer that they visit me because they enjoy it and not out of a sense of duty. I'd rather pay and have my care carried out by professional carers if i need it, or if I have spent all my money by then i'll make do with what the state provides. My sons are grown up adults with lives of their own, I wouldn't want to compromise their happiness by making them feel under any obligation to me.

How are you going to provide 24/7 care to your elderly, ill parents when the time comes? OP you have no grasp on the reality of proving care for your elderly parents. You can't just stick them in a corner and tell them to stay there until you come home from work you know!

I'm aware of that...

We have moved to live just down the road as they want to stay in their own house for as long as possible. That means one of us can drop in either before or after work and weekends while they don't need any full on care (I.e. when they just need shopping, cleaning, gardening) so I fully expect that life outside of work will mainly be cleaning and gardening when it gets to that point unfortunately!

Once more care is needed DH will reduce his hours. I'm the main breadwinner. They will either move in to ours or we will move into theirs.

The sale of the 'spare' house would fund any other care needed. If they don't have dementia then this may be someone coming in to do the 'personal care' elements as both sets of parents have said they don't want us to do this.

Obvs if they get to the point of needing 24/7 care or have complex medical needs (dementia, etc) I fully accept that care homes are better at that stage.

To be clear (again!) the people I know who aren't wanting to do any elder care are in a similar financial position to us.

I'm not talking about people who can't provide elder care for financial or other reasons, I'm talking about people who don't want to.

We both work full time. We both commute 3 hours a day at the moment.

So why on earth would you have moved closer to your parents just because as while they don't need any help now, we know they will at some point in the next 10yrs

Are you covering up for the fact you're trying to position yourselves re inheritance and trying very hard to pretend that you're not?

What you have done makes little sense for someone who is interested in earning their own living from their own career. You could have had years avoiding a 3 hour commute but you are hanging around your parents closely just in case they need help.

And posting on mumsent about how virtuous you think you are doesn't really cover that up.

I smell bullshit.

Why not just pay for a cleaner and a gardener? Why do you have to do it? Taking them out for the day or for a meal is one thing but it really doesn't matter who does odd jobs.

I'm talking about people who don't want to.

That's me. No doubt my siblings will martyr themselves to keep my parents in their home without a thought as to whether that's best for them. They can crack on with it, too.

OP, I think you're missing the point. Once you reach the point where you are unable to live independently you need 24 hour care. You at the very least, need a falls pendant, which means you need carers involved on some level.

What you're talking about is a level of care which does not exist. There is no having Granny sitting in the corner in her rocking chair while you all watch Corrie together and then help Granny up the stairs to bed. If Granny needs help to bed then Granny needs someone trained in moving and handling or you risk causing Granny physical damage and Granny needs a falls pendant. If Granny can't get to bed alone she can't get to the loo alone either.

Granny will need someone on hand to help her to the toilet and make sure she doesn't fall as she is sitting down on the loo. If the person helping her isn't trained in moving and handling they risk causing themselves or Granny injury. Granny will probably need a rota-stand which is not a cheap or small bit of kit. Granny will need someone who can be there at morning, lunch, dinner and evening to toilet her and prepare her meals and someone able to rush to her if she suddenly needs the loo or falls.

I'd much prefer that they visit me because they enjoy it and not out of a sense of duty

See - this is what my DM said to me. However I'm not offering out of a sense of duty. I actively want to care for our parents. They are great people and I want to make sure they are well cared for in a family environment for as long as we are able to and willing to make the compromises that this will entail because I love them (not because of any duty).

She didn't want to go into a home but no effort was put in to getting her sectioned and put into a home or moving her into the family home

This makes me think you have no clue. You can't just section someone- it's not as simple as that. You also can't just uproot someone and move them into the family home if they don't want it. The persons wishes has to be taken into account and the least restrictive option sought (they would only use the MHA and 'sectioning' as a very last resort).

My mother needed help to be lifted on and off the toilet every 3-4 hours 24 hrs a day, 7 days a week, day and night. This was constant for 4 years between 89 and 93 years old.

Will you be up for.that possibility op? while still working full time with children and teenagers at home?

I did this for.my mum as often as I was able , when I visited or took her out etc but the bulk of personal care was done by carers on shift since 4 years of that would have put me in hospital

I did take care of my mother as did my sister even though she was in a home the last 2.5 years . We visited her most days, played games with her, planted flowers with her, went for.days out, took her home for family meals made sure she had the things she wanted around her, read to her etc etc

The 5 years before she went into a home we gradually did.more and more for.her even though she had carer visirs, while she was in her own home until.she had a couple of falls.and was no longer able to manage

Your op is amazing in its ignorance really.

We both work full time. We both commute 3 hours a day at the moment.

How do you think you're going to care for your elderly mother if you're both at work all day and commute for three hours on top of that?

You're going to take your mother away from her home, friends and local area to what, sit alone in your house for 12+ hours a day? Why is that a good idea?

my mum is mid 80s and has a heart condition but is still able to do the basics. She rarely leaves the house though and I end up running a lot of errands for her, shopping, haircut, GP etc. I find this hard because I also have a disabled 12 year old son who needs a lot of time. There is no way I could care for her if she had a serious condition like dementia as I also work and care for DS. She realises she is fortunate financially and has a cleaner, gardener and a physiotherapist come to her house.
She did have a fall recently and the hospital assumed she had family to care for her at home and me and Dsis had to sleep over taking it in turns while she was mobile again. This was really hard and the NHS don't even try to provide support in such circumstances

See - this is what my DM said to me. However I'm not offering out of a sense of duty. I actively want to care for our parents

For the millionth time, NOT EVERYONE IS LIKE YOU.

See - this is what my DM said to me. However I'm not offering out of a sense of duty. I actively want to care for our parents.

But your mum may not want you to care for her. If she needs support at any time it needs to be about her and what she wants, even if that seems like it's a poor decision to you. I'd be surprised that even if she didn't have mental capacity to make a decision on where she lives that uprooting her 200 miles would be the least restrictive option.

You are being massively unreasonable, OP. As you state in your post people now live far from parents have young DCs. What are we supposed to do, just leave the kids and tend to our parents? It's impossible and sadly it just wasn't something on my mind when I was moving around aged 18 for uni.