...to think that children should look after elderly parents?

[wheresmymojo]

It's not a TAAT but inspired by another thread.

It seems to be a general trend that people feel like they shouldn't have any duty/obligation to care for their elderly parents anymore.

Partly I recognise that this is because societal trends make it harder to do elder care than it used to be - it's quite common to have two full time workers, be living quite far from your parents, still have DC to care for at the same time due to later births, etc.

I find it odd though that anyone wouldn't want to care for their elderly parents and find a way to make it happen.

So for example, we have just moved to live near to DH's parents who are in their 70s as while they don't need any help now, we know they will at some point in the next 10yrs.

My DM is very young (56!) so definitely doesn't need any help. I live 200 miles away but have already had the discussion that when she is elderly I'd like her to come and live with us.

I feel like I'm in the minority though these days?

I realise there are of course exceptions - any parental abuse and there will always be people who have very complex situations that mean it isn't possible (e.g. can't afford to move, already have children of their own with special needs, etc).

But I think it's sad that the average person either (a) thinks of it as an obligation/burden that they don't want to do or (b) thinks they don't have any obligation at all.

People underestimate,how quickly people go down hill.

My mam was a carer for her brother and father.She never got time alone.We couldnt plan holidays.She was left with them.No i dont think that was fair on me.

When my mother died[57]her brother was still alive.And i was expected to look after him.

No way was i doing that.He lived another 14 years after my mother died.

I think people dont realise it impacts everyone,not only the person caring or being cared for.

OP, how about you come back on here in a few years' time, when you're actually IN the situation many of us have been or are in right now.
Then I might be prepared to listen to your sanctimonious judging.

I actually respect people who have the conversation and say that they can't be involved in personal care. My MIL is amazing and looks after her in laws hours daily, cleaning the house, driving them everywhere, making meals but she is incredibly squeamish and cannot provide personal care.

I dont know your background but I feel this post is quite naive to what day to day caring for someone is like. I once had a patient who soaked through the bed (with ALL precautions taken) 13 times in a 12 hour shift. That's fine when you have a plastic mattress and can all take turns as a team and shove the washing in a laundry hamper. But would you wash 26 sets of sheets on a daily basis?

Or if your parent has a stroke generally they have a weakness which is essentially a dead side which makes them incredibly difficult to turn (which needs done 2-4 hourly to protect their skin).

Or if your heavier parent falls at home and you cant guide them up, you have no hoist at home and they have to lie on the floor for 4 hours while they wait for an ambulance to come.

These are not particularly complex cases...the majority of people with a long term chronic illness slowly decline and care needs increase. That is the reality of day to day caring.

That's not even bringing in the mental health implications. My husbands gran has some cognitive impairment following her stroke and after I went up to assist he to the toilet every 3 hours, make her tea, get her settled to bed she phoned 5 relatives to say she had been left all alone and was neglected. Her husband is constantly lying about driving as he is completely unsafe to do so but there is nothing we can do about it. Or what if the carer is suffering? 55% of carers were found to be suffering with depression due to their caring commitments.

👏 You are a wonderful person OP, obviously so much more caring than the people you know. Well done, you should be very proud of yourself.

There, is that what you were looking for?

@Frequency

I disagree a bit their - lots of older people live independently with carers coming in three or four times a day and meals on wheels.

My Nan just passed away at 97 and this is what she had until the last six months. The carers coming in did the personal care. That is how things had been for several years. In between she moved around with a frame and had a pendant - first reponsders would come if it went off (she lived in a private house, not assisted living or anything).

While not incontinent DH would provide care during the week and I would provide care at the weekend. This would include helping them sit at the loo, then giving them some privacy but waiting nearby in case needed.

Once incontinent we would use the money from the spare house being sold to have carers in X times per day for the personal care element.

So we would do all care apart from personal care.

My dads health has deteriorated massively in the last year. We have room to have him live with us (about 30 miles away) but he would have no social network like he has at home, he currently lives in london with frequent buses and tubes to get around, his neighbours are great. We live in a commuter town but transport by bus is virtually non existent.....
We are both out at work most if the day so would be unable to take him to medical apts etc.
Would/should i uproot my teen/tween DC from their friends an

"all the care except for the personal care" i.e. not much then.

No-one has any idea what they'll do until they are in this situation.

Many people in their 80s need no help at all-isn't Ken Clark being pushed as a temporary primeminister and he is 80 I think. Yet, my relative is starting to struggle in late early 70s.

No-one knows if their parent will be in the Ken Clark mould or the dementia mould and it is bloody arrogant OP for you to swan in with your views.

Thanks to other posters who have stopped me wanting to put my head in a gas oven by giving a realistic picture.

I am in my 50's and many friends have cared for elderly relatives. Some have also moved housebound relatives so they live very close to them. Most care for relatives with a mixture of paid carers and their own daily input so they can still work though.
I do find the idea though that you should not help care for elderly relatives unless they provided free childcare an awful one.

I come from a non-British culture (as in background; I was born here), and generally speaking we don't put elderly parents in homes, it's just not culturally a "thing".

I completely understand due to circumstances beyond people's control that it may sometimes be necessary. DH's Gran is in a home, for instance, because she has dementia and sometimes can get very violent and is a danger to herself and others.

I do, however, have a strong family ethic that I think is missing from a lot of British culture. Like, it would be completely weird to me to move to a country away from my parents and siblings. I grew up with a massive extended family and the idea of not having that is totally bizarre to me. Everyone chips in to help out with the elderly in my family. I have an 87 year old Great Aunt who never married or had children and she had a fall a couple of years ago and can't really manage on her own any more, so she lives with my Mum and Dad. That's just normal for us.

Once incontinent we would use the money from the spare house being sold to have carers in X times per day for the personal care element

You just cannot plan in this detail. Not everyone who needs care is the same.

My mother lived in sheltered housing for some time until she became unable to look after herself any more. She had a mildish stroke several years and, although she was still mobile and able to live semi-independently with carers doing things like shopping, cleaning and sorting out medication, she fiercely resented the whole thing and became pretty depressed. We tried everything in terms of suggestions and help to improve her life, but she wouldn't have any of it, so they she was constantly complaining how bored she was. Both my siblings and I would come away from visits to her feeling absolutely shit - we used to joke that J K Rowling must have based the Dementors on her, it really felt sometimes as if your soul had been sucked out of you and you were left with a black void.

If she'd come to live with one of us she wouldn't have been any better off, rather the reverse as we wouldn't have had space to keep all her things and she'd have been cut off from everything and everyone that was familiar to her. She'd have hated things like not having her own kitchen and having no control over how the rooms were arranged. And, to be honest, none of us would have been able to cope with it.

In terms of Ken Clark, generally the wealthier you are, the more likely you are to live healthily into old age.
I would though be wary of appearances. My dad looks absolutely fine and very healthy to anyone who chats casually to him. He has pre senile dementia that is not obvious until you see him trying to do something like make a meal.

OP do you really thing that me and my husband should quit our jobs and stop supporting our student daughters so that we can split up and go to Ireland and Cumbria respectively to live with our parents?

We have gone over in times of need but his father and my stepfather needed/need residential care because of dementia and other ailments. Frankly it is not just a case of a slightly doddery parent sitting in corner all day but complex medical care which most people can't provide.

Frankly if I was diagnosed with dementia or a life limiting illness where I would need longer term care I would either commit suicide or go somewhere where I can access euthanasia. Animals are treated better than those in the care system. My kids will have their own lives and families and no way would I expect them to care for me or DH.

OP unless you, you mean well but you really haveno idea about what the reality of caring is like. You're imagining your nice, docile parents happily agreeing to do what's best for themselves, with a little caring guidance from yourself, working within a system that has every bodies best interests at heart.

The reality is often somewhat different. Try your elderly and incapable parent desperately needing support but utterly resentful of the fact, refusing your help with this, but demanding it for thst. Refusing carers. Telling social services that they can manage fine, even though they cant manage at all (and being believed). Or agreeing to x/y/z help then refusing it when the time comes.

...and move nearer to him?
I think it is different from previous generations where families lived closer and sometimes multiple generations in the same home.
My Dad hasn't done much childcare for me but i certainly don't let that influence any of my decisions, its mainly from a practical point of view and thinking what would suit his needs better. As it is i visit 1-2 times a week and he is in a more familiar environment that he has lived in for over 40 years.

Op are you also prepared for the cancelled holidays? .My sister ( the primary carer for.my mum)cancelled more holidays than I can count in the last 10 years of my parents' lives as we lurched from one health crisis to another , first for my dad than for my mum.

DH and I came back early from 4 holidays in 7 years once for my dad , once for his mother and twice for my mum.

Obviously we would look into handling training once it got to that stage.

If changes are needed such as bath hoists, bed hoists, guard rails, etc. We will fit them.

Yes, they can fall over at home and need a proper hoist to get back up which we wouldn't have. I realise we may need to wait with them for the Ambulance to arrive...but surely better that than the same thing happening to them at home on their own?

As I said my Nan has just passed away at 97 so I have as much understanding of what is involved as anyone can before they've done it themselves.

I do have to say though, that assuming the following:

• your parents are not abusive or otherwise toxic
• your parents are not so severely ill or mentally incapacitated that you can't care for them yourself
• you live within a reasonable distance and are able to devote some time

....that you wouldn't want to look after your elderly parents. I can't imagine not doing that for my mum.

My mother has made me categorically promise that if she dies before my dad (he is disabled and bad tempered and there is a high likelihood that he will have dementia) that I absolutely DO NOT have him live with me, or move in with him under any circumstances. She has made this crystal clear to him. I would be prepared to have him in a nursing home near me, where I can visit him regularly and take him out to do things if he's up to it, but we've experienced first hand how providing daily care on a neverending basis can be a) utterly exhausting for the carer, and b) utterly destructive to a relationship. I would far rather that the washing/cleaning/dressing/feeding was done by someone who is paid for it, can go home, and has regular proper breaks, and that I can continue to be a daughter.

My mum has tried to make me promise the same for her, but I'm slightly more inclined to have her live with me, as she's a lot easier to get on with, and because she's been a carer for a very long time, she knows what the pressures are like. But if she needed full time care I think we'd still both be happier with her in a nursing home than with me.

"Once incontinent we would use the money from the spare house being sold to have carers in X times per day for the personal care element"

So if they needed changing when a carer wasn't there?

Op are you also prepared for the cancelled holidays

Yes. That's life 🤷🏻‍♀️

My mum has my dad to care for her at the moment but when he passes away it will be difficult for me to care for her. She has an advanced type of MS which means she is bed bound and unable to use her hands or move her arms and legs.

If she passes away within the next 15 years I will most likely still be working full time and have a teenage child. I will help as much as I can but it is likely she will need full time care which I wont be able to do myself.

It's not about being selfish. It's about people having full time jobs, children etc. Everyone tries their best and having people judge you for not magically having the ability to conjure up an extra 20 hours a week, 20k a year and all the rest of it is really quite crap.

One of the things I've learnt NOT to judge is how (most) people care for their elderly parents. Barring some real shits, most do the best they can in the way they see fit for as long as they can.

My mum has dementia. We were 'lucky' in that DB and I both retired early and before she started to get 'real bad'. DB (bachelor) moved in with her to be her main carer and did a damned fine job. I did mostly 'respite' for him + visiting and taking mum for outings. I do all the 'medical' stuff, he does financial.

But when mum started getting really bad I could see the effect it had on my brother. He was so beat down and depressed. She accused him of terrible things, called the police on him repeatedly, started tearing his room apart looking for 'incriminating evidence'. When she started wandering and banging on neighbor's doors in the middle of the night so they would 'come and stop him' we had to call time. She's now in a lovely facility and actually improved a bit the minute we moved her. Five years later, she now no longer knows us and can no longer communicate coherently. We still visit her every day, one or the other of us, even if all we do it sit and nod as she babbles. We make sure she is clean and comfortable. It's all we can do for her now.

So don't judge.